BREAKING NEWS: King buck is new typical world record!

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: King buck is new typical world record!

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:03 am

binney59 wrote:...I think a large part of the frustration can be traced back to misinformation or misunderstanding of how a deer is scored...

I agree.

Edcyclopedia wrote:...The pictures don't do it justice but clearly show it's a typical as you look at the tape markings!

I would like to see the world record come back to the US, but when I look at the lines where the bases of the tines come together in that last picture it is clearly not a typical. The markings are not placed properly according to the rules.

Ron may be a great guy, but he still worked for B&C. I can understand why they disbarred him. If a worker goes behind the back of his boss, especially the president, in an effort to circumvent the president's authority and creates controversy that is bad for the image of the company then the worker should not be surprised if he or she is fired. This should have been handled internally with the president having the final say. If it had been, there would not have been the firestorm that has formed. Just a short lived controversy with the occasional discussion among serious antler enthusiasts. The controversy would have been the victim of a quick clean kill.


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Re: BREAKING NEWS: King buck is new typical world record!

Unread postby binney59 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:12 am

My impression of things are that Ron was kicked out of the club for knowingly breaking club rules, which is to re-score a buck which in turn promotes "score shopping" (plus he scored it wrong). The point was ruled offset by Jack Renaeu (sp?) when he first looked at it and that's why it didn't get a panel score. Jay Fish got Ron B and a couple other scorers all riled up and I think they are the one with egg on their face and are refusing to admit they made several mistakes since they are so far in to this mess.

In my opinion, the images above show that the tine does not come off of the top of the main beam which is congruent with B&C's official statement [glow=red]"The panel determined the third tine on the right antler arises from the inside edge of the top of the main beam, and also arises partially from the base of an adjoining point, thus establishing it as an abnormal point."[/glow]

Ron's "smoking gun" is that they are not scoring it by the official scoring manual and that they are "making up rules" as they go. What he is completely ignoring is that an article was published in 2000 that explains EXACTLY why the buck is a NT (http://www.boone-crockett.org/pdf/fc_wi ... hytalk.pdf). The article was written by Jack Renaeu which makes him a pretty good authority to make the initial ruling that the buck is not a WR contender, thus would not get a panel score. After he made that ruling and the bad press started rolling in, they told all scorers not to re-score the buck (lots of scorers do not pay attention to all the trophy talk releases) because that would be a violation of club rules. Since Ron ignored that, he knowingly broke the rules and was kicked out.

I am more interested in gross scores myself, but see why B&C does things the way they do and do not think they screwed this ruling up. But... I certainly could be wrong.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: King buck is new typical world record!

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:24 am

Autumn Ninja wrote:
Edcyclopedia wrote:

The pictures don't do it justice but clearly show it's a typical as you look at the tape markings!


Image

In these pic's, the right g2 and non-typical point (still) clearly share a common base.

As for the tape...I can put a saddle on a dog but that won't make him a horse....he will still be a dog.

I agree the horse is dead and the dog got hit by a car on the road.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: King buck is new typical world record!

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:32 am

binney59 wrote:My impression of things are that Ron was kicked out of the club for knowingly breaking club rules, which is to re-score a buck which in turn promotes "score shopping" (plus he scored it wrong). The point was ruled offset by Jack Renaeu (sp?) when he first looked at it and that's why it didn't get a panel score. Jay Fish got Ron B and a couple other scorers all riled up and I think they are the one with egg on their face and are refusing to admit they made several mistakes since they are so far in to this mess.

In my opinion, the images above show that the tine does not come off of the top of the main beam which is congruent with B&C's official statement [glow=red]"The panel determined the third tine on the right antler arises from the inside edge of the top of the main beam, and also arises partially from the base of an adjoining point, thus establishing it as an abnormal point."[/glow]

Ron's "smoking gun" is that they are not scoring it by the official scoring manual and that they are "making up rules" as they go. What he is completely ignoring is that an article was published in 2000 that explains EXACTLY why the buck is a NT (http://www.boone-crockett.org/pdf/fc_wi ... hytalk.pdf). The article was written by Jack Renaeu which makes him a pretty good authority to make the initial ruling that the buck is not a WR contender, thus would not get a panel score. After he made that ruling and the bad press started rolling in, they told all scorers not to re-score the buck (lots of scorers do not pay attention to all the trophy talk releases) because that would be a violation of club rules. Since Ron ignored that, he knowingly broke the rules and was kicked out.

I am more interested in gross scores myself, but see why B&C does things the way they do and do not think they screwed this ruling up. But... I certainly could be wrong.

Great input binney59.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: King buck is new typical world record!

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:29 am

Autumn Ninja wrote:
Edcyclopedia wrote:

The pictures don't do it justice but clearly show it's a typical as you look at the tape markings!


Image

In these pic's, the right g2 and non-typical point (still) clearly share a common base.

As for the tape...I can put a saddle on a dog but that won't make him a horse....he will still be a dog.


The left g3 is identical except for length, yet they called it a typical point on that side...
Same traits and intersections as the right side and is only a deduction from side-to-side.
I should have taken that picture...

I'm by no means a KING Buck expert and I could really care less, but talking to someone verses reading about something tends to make it more credible IMO.
B&C should be embarrassed...
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: King buck is new typical world record!

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:44 am

DEERSLAYER wrote:Ron may be a great guy, but he still worked for B&C. I can understand why they disbarred him. If a worker goes behind the back of his boss, especially the president, in an effort to circumvent the president's authority and creates controversy that is bad for the image of the company then the worker should not be surprised if he or she is fired. This should have been handled internally with the president having the final say. If it had been, there would not have been the firestorm that has formed. Just a short lived controversy with the occasional discussion among serious antler enthusiasts. The controversy would have been the victim of a quick clean kill.


Take it to the top level... - Then why are we questioning Obama?
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: King buck is new typical world record!

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:25 pm

Edcyclopedia wrote:
DEERSLAYER wrote:Ron may be a great guy, but he still worked for B&C. I can understand why they disbarred him. If a worker goes behind the back of his boss, especially the president, in an effort to circumvent the president's authority and creates controversy that is bad for the image of the company then the worker should not be surprised if he or she is fired. This should have been handled internally with the president having the final say. If it had been, there would not have been the firestorm that has formed. Just a short lived controversy with the occasional discussion among serious antler enthusiasts. The controversy would have been the victim of a quick clean kill.


Take it to the top level... - Then why are we questioning Obama?

We don't work for Obama. He works for us.

As I see it what Ron did would be like me having a strong disagreement with Dan on an interpretation of a forum rule (I know, I'm reaching a little here). Dan tells me his mind is made up and his decision is final, but I decide to publically gather support against his decision in an effort to pressure him into reversing the decision. He tells me to knock it off, but I ignore him and continue.

Now, when I get a call or get online and find out I'm not a moderator anymore or have even been banned from the Beast I should not be surprised. Regardless of how long I have been a moderator or how good a job I had done in the past IMO.
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