Why so many discrepancies regarding wind direction and buck

[jonsimoneau]

For years I have tried to unravel the way bucks use the wind as correlated to movement and can honestly say I have really gotten nowhere. There are some successful hunters such as Bill Vale and Adam Hayes who say that when setting up near a bucks bedding area we must setup so that the wind is almost perfect for the deer and almost wrong for the hunter. This is to assume that the deer will prefer to move quartering into the wind when he leaves his bed. The assumption is that you cannot expect a mature buck to commit suicide by moving with the wind at his back. Bill Vale really puts alot of stock in this. Other successful hunters like Dan and Andreae seem to say that they observe deer leaving bedding areas not necessarily heading into the wind. Why is it so different for successful hunters? Also if we cannot predict deer movement based on wind direction, how then will we determine which way a buck will leave his bedding area in situations such as flat terrain that is not marsh where deer can have a number of entry and exit points? Any thoughts?

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[dan]

If Adam and Bill always set up with winds like mentioned... Then thats likely all they will see.

[xpauliber]

For years I have tried to unravel the way bucks use the wind as correlated to movement and can honestly say I have really gotten nowhere. There are some successful hunters such as Bill Vale and Adam Hayes who say that when setting up near a bucks bedding area we must setup so that the wind is almost perfect for the deer and almost wrong for the hunter. This is to assume that the deer will prefer to move quartering into the wind when he leaves his bed. The assumption is that you cannot expect a mature buck to commit suicide by moving with the wind at his back. Bill Vale really puts alot of stock in this. Other successful hunters like Dan and Andreae seem to say that they observe deer leaving bedding areas not necessarily heading into the wind. Why is it so different for successful hunters? [glow=red]Also if we cannot predict deer movement based on wind direction, how then will we determine which way a buck will leave his bedding area[/glow] in situations such as flat terrain that is not marsh where deer can have a number of entry and exit points? Any thoughts?

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I've wondered about this myself. I haven't found and analyzed enough buck beds though to have a good enough understanding. I hope to change that.

[jonsimoneau]

Ha! Good point Dan. I guess I never thought of that!

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[Stanley]

Most set ups aren't wind direction perfect. As long as your scent isn't blowing towards the buck you are good to go. The buck bedding area is the key. You can't under any circumstances let you scent blow into that area. Bucks go from bedding to food sources. Not because the wind is blowing to their backs, or into their face..

Bucks move in that direction because that is where they are headed. The hunter controls what wind to hunt, not the buck. So if you hunt only off winds, that is the wind direction you will be successful hunting.

If you hunt bucks with the wind blowing the direction they are traveling that is when the hunter will be successful.

If you hunt with the wind blowing from you towards the bedding area you will be in for a long hunt. Not every hunt is successful. The buck may take a different path than you set up on. That is out of your control. Keep in mind if you set up properly, no buck sighting is not failure, that is just hunting.

So to answer the question I don't think all/most deer movement is based on wind direction. In my thought process I don't set up because the wind is blowing from a certain direction to the bucks advantage but merely my advantage.

[G3s]

Regardless of topography there are always thermals. I know they have played a role in my success or failure a time or 2. Example being the first deer I killed this past season. A very mature deer, directly downwind at 46 yards. Had I not had thermals on my side, I would have been screwed. I think deer know how to use those thermals to their advantage and it plays into how they use the wind. I have seen deer walking upwind, downwind, crosswind, quartered to the wind, and every variation in between. I am sure I am missing something, but it seems that wind direction has little to do with which direction the deer decide to walk.

[dan]

Also if we cannot predict deer movement based on wind direction, how then will we determine which way a buck will leave his bedding area in situations such as flat terrain that is not marsh where deer can have a number of entry and exit points? Any thoughts?

I get asked this a lot... A lot of the time there is one main exit. Pretty easy in that case.
Sometimes there are more than one way deer come out of bedding areas. Thats where scouting and experience comes to play.
You need to evaluate the sign ( tracks, rubs, scrapes ) at the food sources, or know from experience that deer are feeding on a certain thing at a certain time of the year, or are they leaving the bed to seek does? You hunt the exit that leads towards the direction the bucks are wanting to go.

[Spysar]

Here's the problem with deer hunting. People want to know what deer "generally" do. Or they expect that every move a deer makes is predictable. Well guess what? They aren't predictable all the time! Deer are individuals, just like you and me. When 4 people sit down to eat, do they all order the same thing?? Heck no. If people are driving somewhere, do they all take the same route?? No, they don't. So there is no real answer that covers all senarios of what a buck will do. That's what makes hunting challenging and fun. If you could predict everything, there would be no deer left.

[gjs4]

Dont forget Vale is from SC MI with limited ag and hunting more urban areas

FACT- A deer is do-ing what you see them do.
MY target buck this year tailwinded...seriously...all the times i saw or observed him..he was the only one.

I think countless authors write or speak of letting the wind almost kill you in regards to being upwind of moving deer, or catching the chink in their armor with the one creek or hill they cannot use the wind to their full advantage with... guessing most deer i hunt move this way but prefer to move at certain times and cover moreso than certain winds...when the pressure is up they just dont move much or do so after dark...whcih when comparing (night time) trail cam data to weather it seems wind matters way less

just my $0.02 though

[PK_]

Most scenarios, wind to back
Cautious or curious, nose to wind.
Searching for does, crosswind.

Patterns I have recognized.

But I am never surprised when I see bucks break the rules. I believe a buck travels headwind, tailwind and everything in between, each day...

[uncleron]

I think a lot of it has to do with how stressed the deer is. During my pushes on public land Ive noticed a pushed deer usually wants to flee into the wind. If you push them so they cant run into the wind, they want to circle.

Bill Vale hunts very pressured deer, as do most hunters in MI. These bucks have been bumped from their beds, pushed off of feeding areas, over and over during a season, causing them to feel more stressed than normal. I think that's why a lot of times these bucks want to come out of their bedding areas into the wind or quartering into it.

Our family property has a dense, 30-40 acre alder sanctuary on it and is surrounded by properties with fairly high hunting pressure. Several years ago I noticed that the older bucks like to leave the sanctuary on the upwind side. It's not 100%, but it's more times than not. I do still see them cruising the downwind side looking for does, if I get the right crosswind. But usually if I want to see those bucks leave the swamp, I have to be on the upwind side of the sanctuary, which is the opposite of what you normally hear on TV. The trick is finding a spot where your scent misses the deer but the deer will still be within range. I like to blow my scent at an obstruction that the deer has to walk around and get up high in a tree.

[Ridgerunner7]

I think a lot of it has to do with how stressed the deer is. During my pushes on public land Ive noticed a pushed deer usually wants to flee into the wind. If you push them so they cant run into the wind, they want to circle.

Bill Vale hunts very pressured deer, as do most hunters in MI. These bucks have been bumped from their beds, pushed off of feeding areas, over and over during a season, causing them to feel more stressed than normal. I think that's why a lot of times these bucks want to come out of their bedding areas into the wind or quartering into it.

Our family property has a dense, 30-40 acre alder sanctuary on it and is surrounded by properties with fairly high hunting pressure. Several years ago I noticed that the older bucks like to leave the sanctuary on the upwind side. It's not 100%, but it's more times than not. I do still see them cruising the downwind side looking for does, if I get the right crosswind. But usually if I want to see those bucks leave the swamp, I have to be on the upwind side of the sanctuary, which is the opposite of what you normally hear on TV. The trick is finding a spot where your scent misses the deer but the deer will still be within range. I like to blow my scent at an obstruction that the deer has to walk around and get up high in a tree.

This has been my observation as well. Outside of the rut, the most mature bucks I've seen over the past 17 years according to my logs tend to move into a quartering wind. Not always, but most of the time. This is outside of the rut and on a bed to feed pattern. I also believe the buck will go where he wants to go but if he doesn't have a "safe" wind he simply waits until the cover of darkness or at best stay very close to his bed. I've observed this a few times as I could see the buck in his bed or just out of it. I will say depending on the bedding area I've seen them move regardless of wind but still very short distances from their bed more so in marsh, swamp bedding but they till won't get anywhere near where most hunters would be setup. This is in southern Michigan and I haven't observed this in other less pressured states. I was scouting yesterday and counted 8 tree stand in a 20 acre woodlot. This is pretty much the norm I see in my area. I would never expect a mature deer to come through this perfect funnel to lush beans on the other side with his wind to back. It would be suicide. How ever with just off wind and the buck sensing no danger you have a chance.

I will say I have had succes (outside the rut)hunt beast style ( close to the bed) successful with an in the face wind because the buck remains in an area he feels is safe. Many my properties are tiny so hunting right on top of beds isn't always the best option.

I want to add that this isnt a 100% thing. Just an obsevation I've seen more times than not. I still hunt with wind in my face often because that perfect "off" wind is pretty rare. We don't get the number of mature deer as some other states so my experience on mature deer 4 years and older may be limited compared to some here. Just sharing my observations from southern Michigan.

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[JoeRE]

Here's the problem with deer hunting. People want to know what deer "generally" do. Or they expect that every move a deer makes is predictable. Well guess what? They aren't predictable all the time! Deer are individuals, just like you and me. When 4 people sit down to eat, do they all order the same thing?? Heck no. If people are driving somewhere, do they all take the same route?? No, they don't. So there is no real answer that covers all senarios of what a buck will do. That's what makes hunting challenging and fun. If you could predict everything, there would be no deer left.

Great point, everyone needs remind themselves of this every so often!

I personally have not seen any correlation of deer traveling in their natural patterns according to wind direction other than in the late season they run right into the wind when jumped around here to avoid getting shot in a drive. If you are careful and know the terrain it makes like shooting ducks in a barrel.

That and bucks using the wind to scent check where does might be during the rut. I think it depends what kind of country you are hunting and what tactics hunters generally utilize.

[dan]

On the same page of what Ridge runner said, They move the direction they want to move... BUT THEY ARE GOING TO MOVE FARTHER WHEN THEY FEEL SAFE.
A "just off" wind is what I use when I can't get close enough, or when the buck only beds in a certain spot on a certain wind and that makes it difficult to hunt there...

On another note... I have had a lot of hill country type hunters tell me that they only hunt high cause of swirling winds and that big bucks almost always move into the wind... Truth is, they usually bed on points when the wind is blowing down the point and thermal rises during the day from below, so if the guy is setting up when the wind is in his face, of coarse he ain't going to see a mature buck... Its not bedded there that day.

[Stanley]

Great topic many good points and observations.

I would like to reiterate on hunters success and wind direction. If your style is hunting bucks with an off wind then you will be successful hunting with an off wind. In other words if you are fishing with a chartreuse bait that is the bait color you will have success with, catching fish.

I think too many hunters stereotype wind direction from experiences they have had. I have killed more bucks with wind to their backs than any other scenario. The only reason this happens is because that is the way I set up most of the time. This by no means is the only way to set up. It is the safest way (not to get busted) to set up, that I can assure you.

I feel you are lessening your chance or second chances playing the wind a few degrees of tolerance. If you set up with just a few degrees of tolerance you will get busted more often then if you set up with a good degree of tolerance.

I am always skeptical when I hear hunters say I read this guy does it this way so that must be the best and work the best. For that hunter that set up, is the best method for Him. I am a low impact style of hunter. My advice or methods may not work for you, if you are an aggressive style hunter.