Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

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Craaaig
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Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Craaaig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:01 am

I'm trying to learn more about stands of tag alder (also called speckled alder I think), and swamps of tag alder!! I'm from SE Michigan and the tag alder swamps that I hunt become primary bedding areas I believe as the hunting pressure increases and the foliage drops! A lot of these tag alders stands/swamps are like 8-15 feet tall. Some have decent trees for a set up, and some have no trees at all. Would a tag alder swamp be considered tag alder mixed with sporadic trees and other types of vegetation? While a stand of tag alder consists only of tag alder for however many acres? What kind of experiences have you guys had while hunting tag alders? Both good and bad are going to help everyone learn more! Hopefully we can learn from any of your bad experiences!! I would like to hunt some of these spots from the ground if possible! Any advice/input towards setting up in the thick from the ground would also be appreciated!!!

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Craaaig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:15 am

One tag alder swamp in particular that I have had the chance to scout so far has a lot of rubs, not huge trees, only about 3 inches diameter but at the same time there isn't a lot of bigger trees for them to rub in there. So I am not convinced all the rubs are from smaller bucks. Looks to me more like deer bed in the tag alders and the bucks get up occasionally to stretch and rub a little. This is also a spot that bucks can get away with murder all day long during the rut, they could sit back there and laugh and joke all day because humans rarely step foot in there, it's a little darker during the day, plenty of browse, and a little protection from the elements of weather. I think coyotes would be their main threat while inside these sanctuaries! Tag alder is listed as a starvation food on the MI DNR website. I think if I wanted to stay alive I would settle for a lower quality browse throughout the day though if it meant I had the feeling of security!!!

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Craaaig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:38 am

http://tidcf.nrcan.gc.ca/images_web/imf ... uette2.gif


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2 links with pics of tag alder I found real quick, if you were wondering what tag alder was! Don't know how to post pics yet!!

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headgear
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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby headgear » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:45 am

I hunt a lot of these swamps, the bucks love them and I find some of my best bedding areas in and around them. The difficult part comes in when you get a large tag alder swamp where the vegitation and elevation remain the same throughout the area. There can be virtually hundreds to thousands of small humps for the deer to bed on so it takes a lot of looking around to find the hot zones. Even when you do find them I don't know that the bedding is very consistent because they feel safe just about anywhere in there. I seem to have more luck hunting smaller islands that are surrounded by tags on all sides. They tend to be more consistent bedding and the bucks will stage close to the island and litter the surrounded alders with rubs. You either need to find a tree close enough to hunt or get it done from the ground.
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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Craaaig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:53 am

From the ground sounds tough but that is one of my overall goals, to evolve enough to be able to set up from the ground in the tag alders and dump a mature one! Might as well do it with a recurve too if the shots are going to be 10 yards!!! I think I would have to go out before hand if possible and build an FFP (final firing position) and maybe dig a small hole if it doesn't fill up with water! Then put some dead branches together and whatever else! All I would need is to be able to do is get the draw on him before he's in my shooting lane! Sounds easy enough, now all I gotta do is wait for next hunting season!! This past season I actually hunted deeper in the tag alders, but I waited until the rut because I didn't spend much time patterning the deer and I had no other hard evidence that would give me enough confidence to just go in there in the early season cause I got out of work a couple hours early or I wanted to be adventurous! I am not sure if the bucks are using these tag alders before the season when the foliage is still up. I haven't gone in there to check for sign in the early fall, probably deathly thick in there when everything is green!!! But I am confident that the bucks in the area know of this area and are familiar with it! Lots of good buck sign! If I lived outside everyday in these woods for 4 years (goal of age of deer) then I would know where the safe spots are and where humans more regularly travel and where the neighbor hung his stand and cut 40 yard radius of shooting lanes. Them mature bucks are smart smart smart!! For me to think I am just going to walk in to ones backyard/bedroom and set up on him sounds foolish!!! But it will happen! I'm going to live out there if the wind lets me! All day sits during the rut in the safe zones are exciting, and boring! Got a couple spots I can access these swamps by ocean kayak and sit with my back to the lake and have my scent go right out across the lake. Is there any disadvantages to this? Seems like the best option to me, I have also heard of the wind taking your scent to the next tree line and bouncing off and coming back, that's why deer will spook to the middle of the field sometimes to continue feeding? Thanks!! We have a lot of smaller lakes here in MI, sounds like a stupid question if the lakes were a mile long, but we have a lot of 20-60 acre lakes and ponds here!

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby headgear » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:16 am

A lot of the tag alder swamp I hunt have check high grass so hunting from the ground works, however that grass also makes for some hard shooting so there is some give and take there. Every place a is a little different so you just have to hit the woods and see how you can make it work.

I have seen plenty of action in these types of settings all season long. Twice last year during early season I had a wind gust from the wrong directions blow my cover next to an alder swap bed, both times the deer blew at me and took off deeper into the swamp.
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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby dan » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:17 am

The best bedding and travel will be at transition areas... Interior transitions, and ones that seldom see humans in particular.
Once you find where big bucks bed within the swamp, it should repeat with other bucks in the same spots.
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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Craaaig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:07 am

Thanks!! That makes sense! That way they could have a good escape route and easily get out of the thick thick stuff so they can use their senses a little more and so they don't lose precious distance from danger, they could cover a lot of ground a lot faster I think if they were out of the tag alders!! This spot in particular butts up to some reed canary grass and then a small inlet to a natural pond to the south and another lake to the east! Real nice out there! Those places are sacred, when you go in there you just know you don't belong and the deer know it too!!! You gotta really get in tune with nature and pay attention to detail and soak it all in cause you can't get away with going in those safe zones often!! I'm scouting some areas only once this winter and not going in again until hunting season when the wind is right!

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby headgear » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:14 am

Good tip on interior trasitions Dan, that is usually the first place I look for bedding within a swamp like this.
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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:26 am

Good posts already I see...
I've spent so much time in tagalders over the years it'd make your head spin...

Tagalder swamps can be great bedding areas- the runs going in and out are pretty obvious. I'd scout the exterior transition line where the tagalders but up against a different type of cover. Walk that edge while watching the runs going in and out... look for rubs and oversized tracks. It shouldn't take you long to get back in there to find a buck bedding area or two. These types of runs will get you to the interior transitions you seek for bedding.

Hunting on the ground, I see you mentioned digging a hole and piling some brush for cover...

In high pressure areas I'd rethink that. Everyone always piles some brush / vegetation / sticks or logs in a horizontal fashion. This doesn't look natural to these bucks... and they've had bad experiences near horizontal piles of cover in the past. I'd recommend settling in to some thick cover and poking out a couple of holes to shoot your weapon through, with a visual but small shooting lane to cover the bucks "exit runway" and another tiny lane to fire your weapon. This is up-close and in your face hunting- I've had deer close enough to poke with my weapon in the tagalders.

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Craaaig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:39 am

Thanks! Puzzle is coming together pretty fast just from applying everyone's knowledge with what I already know about the deer activity and movement in the immediate area!! I already think I know where the beds will be on the interior transition! Would have took me a long while to figure that out so I appreciate it!!! I'll make sure to only use vertical cover if I do hunt from the ground!

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Craaaig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:44 am

Good pics too! Those are classic examples!!

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Dewey » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:06 am

Best example I could find. Are these considered tag alders too?

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Craaaig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:33 am

Yeah about 99 percent sure that's them!!! Next question is do you think those rubs were made by bucks passing through the area or by a buck(s) bedded down throughout the day and getting up to rub some trees cause they can't take it anymore!!! I would go crazy if I was stuck in a swamp all day waiting for it to get dark, mean while some measly 4 pt is harrassing all the does and getting away with it because hunting pressure has drove me nocturnal. Until the urges get so strong I have to leave my bed to breed, that's when a lot of them get killed! When they get complacent! And that's when hunters get busted! When they get complacent!

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Re: Trying to learn more about tag alder swamps!!

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:58 am

Dewey its hard to tell, but those look like shrub willows (Salix) to me. Tagalders are brown barked with white / grey specks in the bark. Both species like the same swamp / marsh habitat.


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