Late Season Doe Predicament

[BigHills BuckHunter]

I have a different philosophy on killing does than most of the management plans you read about. First off, I am positive you won't effect the genetics in any way by killing any age doe. Next in order, I ask what is wrong with seeing 10-15 does on a hunt? I read all the time about doe ratios to buck ratios and have never made sense of it. If you have ever hunted an area with few does the puzzle will quickly start to go together. If you have 15 does and and 4 bucks what will you accomplish if you reduce it down to 12 does and 4 bucks? Now all you have accomplished is reduced the buck producers in the herd. Does control the buck populations. I think the DNR has gotten too liberal on doe tags in a lot of areas. In my opinion the doe killing craze has gotten out of hand. You can kill what you want but don't do it because the Lakosky's do.

I agree 100% Stan very few people think this way. Less does will always equal less bucks its a fact. If a doe is dead she cant give birth to a buck next spring or the next spring. Managing the doe herd destroyed the hunting in northern Wisconsin and now its hard to even see a deer up there in some areas. A number of units are now buck only just to try and keep a future deer herd alive. Sad but true..

[ Post made via Android ]

I agree too... I mentioned it before in a thread, Andraes Illinois property has more deer than anywhere I have seen in the world. Its almost unreal to sit in a stand and see a hundred deer, but it has happened to me at this particular farm... But, many of Andraes highest scoring bucks, including his top 2 came off that farm. The high population nor the buck/ doe ratio, is not seeming to effect the antler growth there one bit.

Thanks for the observation Dan. Ive been taught overpopulation eventually leads to a crash in population. However, as Bowhunter15 said in a different post the gun hunters take care of overpopulation and so do the cars. I now regret taking out as many does as I did this year. Population is still very high after gun season though so thats a plus.

[matt1336]

Kill what you and your family can eat and stop over thinking stuff. If you have good habitat deer will be there. i would also think that the genetics that are in your area will stay there regardless if you kill some does with good genetic potential.

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[BowtechHunting]

Kill what you and your family can eat and stop over thinking stuff. If you have good habitat deer will be there. i would also think that the genetics that are in your area will stay there regardless if you kill some does with good genetic potential.

[ Post made via iPad ]

Good point, fill the freezer! Isn't that the real purpose behind deer hunting? Or any kind of hunting for that matter? I enjoy the management side of hunting and like to look at numbers to get a better herd. But, I bet if you shoot a doe or a buck, there will be another deer come in the area and take their spot in the herd.

[phade]

For some reason, I love a late season doe kill. Don't know why. Maybe it's usually the snow, a ton of hunting has been done, and just seems like a great way to close out a season.

I took one doe this season during regular gun, and normally I take 3-4 of them alone per year. Granted I took two archery bucks, so that filled up the freezer, but I have an itch to pull the trigger on a nanny with the muzzleloader this coming weekend.

[dirt nap giver]

Just as many on here I have an opinion on this.
1) shooting the matriarchs right now has its draw backs. They are typically the first to be bred, so taking them out now means that not only are you taking her out, your taking next years offspring at the same time. Essentially a multiple for 1 deal.
2) if you leave the younger does, they are terrible mothers, and that itself has consiquences toward the heard.

One of the things I learned years ago when I started crop damage and nuisance tags was, if you want to shut a farm or property down, the quickest way is to shoot the matriarchs. This made it much easier for me to finish off the rest of each group strictly because I pulled the trigger on the wisest of the group. I have been doing these tags for 12 years now and from my perspective, I would shoot a 1.5 year old doe before anything else. In a 3 year period i can take a property that holds 25-30 deer, and bring it down to 3-4 deer who have wandered in. Even better yet, leave em alone. Having that many does around isn't goin to hurt your hunting one bit.
I realize your not trying to shut your hunting spot down, just some food for thought.
[ Post made via iPhone ]

[BowtechHunting]

Just as many on here I have an opinion on this.
1) shooting the matriarchs right now has its draw backs. They are typically the first to be bred, so taking them out now means that not only are you taking her out, your taking next years offspring at the same time. Essentially a multiple for 1 deal.
2) if you leave the younger does, they are terrible mothers, and that itself has consiquences toward the heard.

One of the things I learned years ago when I started crop damage and nuisance tags was, if you want to shut a farm or property down, the quickest way is to shoot the matriarchs. This made it much easier for me to finish off the rest of each group strictly because I pulled the trigger on the wisest of the group. I have been doing these tags for 12 years now and from my perspective, I would shoot a 1.5 year old doe before anything else. In a 3 year period i can take a property that holds 25-30 deer, and bring it down to 3-4 deer who have wandered in. Even better yet, leave em alone. Having that many does around isn't goin to hurt your hunting one bit.
I realize your not trying to shut your hunting spot down, just some food for thought.
[ Post made via iPhone ]

Just like all things in life they have their pros and cons...good points though.

[Schultzy]

About 5 years ago we had doe's everywhere. Problem was we didn't have crap for mature bucks or even 2 year old bucks. Rut sign sucked as there wasn't any competition with the doe's and mature buck numbers were very few and far between. Since we've gained more mature bucks and still have the same amount of doe's and the rut sign Is much better. Prior to this I was under the Impression that we had too many doe's thus not making any competition for the bucks. Here the whole problem was not enough older bucks In the area. It opened up my thinking allot. Still though If you don't have mature buck numbers a person will continue beating their head against the wall. A nice thing about having too many doe's Is that It will help keep your bucks around come the rut. At least that's been my experience anyway.

[BigHills BuckHunter]

From SHULTZY: "Prior to this I was under the Impression that we had too many doe's thus not making any competition for the bucks."

I thought this for a while after having a horrible year for bowhunting and gun hunting. I looked for sheds in the spring and found the most yearling sheds I have ever found. The older class just wasnt there like it is now. This was 4 years ago.

[Stanley]

About 5 years ago we had doe's everywhere. Problem was we didn't have crap for mature bucks or even 2 year old bucks. Rut sign sucked as there wasn't any competition with the doe's and mature buck numbers were very few and far between. Since we've gained more mature bucks and still have the same amount of doe's and the rut sign Is much better. Prior to this I was under the Impression that we had too many doe's thus not making any competition for the bucks. Here the whole problem was not enough older bucks In the area. It opened up my thinking allot. Still though If you don't have mature buck numbers a person will continue beating their head against the wall. A nice thing about having too many doe's Is that It will help keep your bucks around come the rut. At least that's been my experience anyway.

Just curious what do you think contributed to more mature bucks?

[Bucky]

I think on 160 acres even 300 acres you might just be shooting yourself in the foot by aggressively harvesting does (one here or there okay)... but 1000+ acres doe management is definetly necessary.

Look at the success of the Lakosky's, Bill Winke, Grant Woods, etc....

I'd much rather hunt a buck raised by a non matriarch as well... I'm convinced through experience that offspring raised by younger does on "managed" ground are easier to kill than those raised by a doe with 4-6yrs experience in the wild

[Zap]

You'll probably get a wide range of opinions on this. I believe it is just about impossible to control genetics in a wild herd. So I would take the first good shot on a doe presented to me.

And then the second shot....

[Schultzy]

About 5 years ago we had doe's everywhere. Problem was we didn't have crap for mature bucks or even 2 year old bucks. Rut sign sucked as there wasn't any competition with the doe's and mature buck numbers were very few and far between. Since we've gained more mature bucks and still have the same amount of doe's and the rut sign Is much better. Prior to this I was under the Impression that we had too many doe's thus not making any competition for the bucks. Here the whole problem was not enough older bucks In the area. It opened up my thinking allot. Still though If you don't have mature buck numbers a person will continue beating their head against the wall. A nice thing about having too many doe's Is that It will help keep your bucks around come the rut. At least that's been my experience anyway.

Just curious what do you think contributed to more mature bucks?

A very late corn harvest. Allot less bucks were shot during the gun season that year. This was In 2008 I believe. Just one year of bucks getting age has done wonders. I couldn't Imagine what consecutive years of bucks getting age would do. You have to remember, our gun season Is smack In the middle of the rut unlike your gun season.