PA - Its not the deer, its the hunters

[jlh42581]

I just went down to the park which is doe only, not to look for my hanger, im doing that in the morning. Didnt get to hunt tonight, it was just too much of a gamble. I didnt get my camera or anything because I have tomorrow off :)

Anyhow, I was looking for the doe's because we have a terrible wind in the morning so I figure Ill get my hanger if it exists and do a doe hunt. I lit up a field that I have looked at many times on google earth due to features which scream big bucks and there stood a typical 14, MASSIVE buck at least 170".

Lisa said, we've been spotlighting for years and I have never seen a deer like that. I said... thats cause no one can hold off enough to let them grow, theyre too afraid the neighbor might shoot a buck they let walk.

Some day, when hunting is less popular I highly suspect you will see more counties of PA climb the big buck ladder.

[Crazinamatese]

I just went down to the park which is doe only, not to look for my hanger, im doing that in the morning. Didnt get to hunt tonight, it was just too much of a gamble. I didnt get my camera or anything because I have tomorrow off :)

Anyhow, I was looking for the doe's because we have a terrible wind in the morning so I figure Ill get my hanger if it exists and do a doe hunt. I lit up a field that I have looked at many times on google earth due to features which scream big bucks and there stood a typical 14, MASSIVE buck at least 170".

Lisa said, we've been spotlighting for years and I have never seen a deer like that. I said... thats cause no one can hold off enough to let them grow, theyre too afraid the neighbor might shoot a buck they let walk.

[glow=red]Some day, when hunting is less popular[/glow] I highly suspect you will see more counties of PA climb the big buck ladder.

With that, hopefully hunting will be somewhat still affordable.

[gjs4]

I just went down to the park which is doe only, not to look for my hanger, im doing that in the morning. Didnt get to hunt tonight, it was just too much of a gamble. I didnt get my camera or anything because I have tomorrow off :)

Anyhow, I was looking for the doe's because we have a terrible wind in the morning so I figure Ill get my hanger if it exists and do a doe hunt. I lit up a field that I have looked at many times on google earth due to features which scream big bucks and there stood a typical 14, MASSIVE buck at least 170".

Lisa said, we've been spotlighting for years and I have never seen a deer like that. I said... thats cause no one can hold off enough to let them grow, theyre too afraid the neighbor might shoot a buck they let walk.

[glow=red]Some day, when hunting is less popular[/glow] I highly suspect you will see more counties of PA climb the big buck ladder.

With that, hopefully hunting will be somewhat still affordable.

Leasing is booming here...farmer spay $10 an acre for tillable...hunters 10-20 (most being 15-20$ per acre)...and rack size has been steadily increasing...though "brown is down" is the majority mentality. Guys are shelling out thousands jst to have that buffer from other hunters/idiots

[Mountain Man]

I just went down to the park which is doe only, not to look for my hanger, im doing that in the morning. Didnt get to hunt tonight, it was just too much of a gamble. I didnt get my camera or anything because I have tomorrow off :)

Anyhow, I was looking for the doe's because we have a terrible wind in the morning so I figure Ill get my hanger if it exists and do a doe hunt. I lit up a field that I have looked at many times on google earth due to features which scream big bucks and there stood a typical 14, MASSIVE buck at least 170".

Lisa said, we've been spotlighting for years and I have never seen a deer like that. I said... thats cause no one can hold off enough to let them grow, theyre too afraid the neighbor might shoot a buck they let walk.

Some day, when hunting is less popular I highly suspect you will see more counties of PA climb the big buck ladder.

I guess you could thank Gary Alt for having something to do with that. He tried and I think he did some good. Too bad he was driven out of PA.

[PLB]

Wisconsin ain't far behind.Too many hunters still have if it's brown it's down mentality. Our DNR has brainwashed us since the mid 1990s that shooting lots of does is cool. It used to be a sin to shoot a doe up north. Now hunters are slaughtering whole families of does up there. It's not did you have a good hunt anymore. It's did you get your deer?

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[ub1243]

Wisconsin ain't far behind.Too many hunters still have if it's brown it's down mentality. Our DNR has brainwashed us since the mid 1990s that shooting lots of does is cool. It used to be a sin to shoot a doe up north. Now hunters are slaughtering whole families of does up there. It's not did you have a good hunt anymore. It's did you get your deer?

that is what happend in northern tier PA.
i used to hunt Tioga county every year. Alt came in, made some nice changes. but the doe slaughter went too far.
now, drive through tioga and see all the empty deer clubs. i stopped going to PA. the rest of the guys are on the fence about stopping the trip.
game commision killed the local economy up there with the changes. but think about all the permit money they are making.

[Zap]

I hear ya, JIH.

Here we have that same problem with the NR hunters.....

[moondoondude]

You are so right. It is the same way here. Genetics, habitat, age. You can guess which is the easiest variable to control. Everyone wants to shoot big bucks, but very few control themselves or care enough to let an antlered deer walk by. People come up with excuses for it, but the truth is far too obvious.

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[bowmike]

I must be one of the idiots from PA then. I did hold out last year and had real opportunities at monsters. This year I do not have the time nor finances to hold out. I wanted to spend time with my family and have meat. The main thing about PA is hunting isnt measured in G-2's or Gross P&Y scores. Most PA hunters first deer was a 4 point forkhorn or a spike. Although these time honored traditions are fading away pretty fast, a lot of hunters are still happy with a 2.5 year old buck or an 8 point with a 12" spread. Some guys, myself included measure a season but what is learned, good memories, and spending time with nature not the gross score of our buck.

I do love seeing mature deer and will not deny that the herd is healthier than ever with a lower population. But to lable some one as an idiot because they do not value a deer for the anmount of antler it has in my opinion is unsportsman-like. If you want to hold out for a big buck than good, I feel you should not degrade or look down on another person because their buck is not up to you standards.

I will not deny that PA could become a state with record book animals more of the norm. Look at last year and the year before all had record breakers. But the mind set is not the same here as it is in the mid-west. A 100" buck here is a nice buck. I have no problems with it.

I am not happy with the doe slaughter either. I would love to see the season go back to a 3 day doe season. My area got hammered with these regulations. I had not shot a doe in 6 years and not all by choice. I almost feel bad to pull the trigger on a doe.

[Crazinamatese]

This is a touchy subject. I agree with you bowmike 100%. Im free to kill any deer I want as long as its legal to do so. I buy the tag and all my equipment and hunt public property. I do have personal goals for the size of bucks I hunt now, but I don't get all bent out of shape when i see small bucks or a truck load of deer getting registered at the local bar. I killed many of them in the past. Every year, I hear more and more guys blaming the neighbors, blaming al qaida, blaming everyone for killing all the deer. Get real. We are facing a future where the sport of hunting might cease to exist. In my lifetime, I might see that happen. Enjoy it while you can and quit worrying about what the camp down the road is doing. For someone to tell me I should let them grow is like them saying Im not good enough, and I should let them grow so they can get a crack at them instead. Those type of people really couldn't give a rat's a55 about me on a personal level, but they have no problem telling me how I should hunt. Tell me what I should and shouldn't shoot, and I will probably tell you where to shove it. Unless Im hunting on a property that practices QDM, I will be more that happy to respect requests to allow small bucks go.

[bowmike]

I used to get heated over this topic but I don't any more. A lot of it comes from the mind set of skills. It takes more skill to harvest a mature buck and that mindset intrigues a lot of guys. If i can tell these guys have the skill and record to show that their skill is that good then i will listen to them. I will not lie that I set my self up for the best possible area (before watching the hill country dvd) to harvest a mature buck. Do i make a goal that this buck is the only one I will harvest no. Does that fact that I am willing to shoot an animal 2.5 or younger make me less of a hunter. In my opinion no.

I like to equate a lot of todays trophy mindset to that of some elitist fly fisherman. A lot of these self proclaimed masters of the sport with their brand new 1500 rods and 2000 gear and 40,000 bmw like to talk a lot of skill to me on the stream. They talk and talk about how they target trophy trout, and how they use this particular cast to get the fly to do this and how they will never use an indicator. And talk about more things. Mean while I am slamming trout left and right and smiling to myself wearing my cheap redington waders and redington fly outfit that might have totaled 300 bucks on flies i have created from my mind and not out the latest issue of Field and stream.

Do i think of anyone on here that way. HECK NO. Most of the guys on here would walk circles around me in the deer woods. But you all know these self proclaimed expert bow hunters with their 1500 dollar rig who use the latest tactic the read out of bowhunter magazine or talk about skills that they never even tried they read from outdoor life like they have been doing it for years. These are the guys that really drive me nuts when they talk about trophy hunting and passing up smaller bucks and such.

[bowmike]

And with that being said hasn't Gary Alt been involved with Wisconsin now-a-days. You guys can have hime lol

[Crazinamatese]

I get fired up a little still over this kinda subject. Im perfectly happy with the animals I kill. And thats the way it should be.

[Crazinamatese]

We don't need anymore 'know it all' biologist/conservationalists to come here to give their expert advice on how people should hunt. Kroll did that already. Let there be a vote among the people what should be done. Less government!

[moondoondude]

Where did someone call/label someone else an idiot?

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