Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby kenn1320 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:22 pm

dan wrote:I invited the pro-staff, mod's, and testers, over for a hunt over the weekend... Singing Bridge was the only guy who picked his own spots. I was pretty impressed when given a map of a large swamp that is about 3 miles across, he picked 3 spots, and to my amazement, it was the same top three spots I had picked out of that same swamp almost right down to the tree...


Wow you both picking the same 3 spots is pretty cool. I have seen bio’s from most of the top names on this site, but haven’t seen one from SB. How bout it SB, would you show us your trophy room and give us some scoop on your style/methods of hunting?


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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby PLB » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:32 pm

kenn1320 wrote:
dan wrote:I invited the pro-staff, mod's, and testers, over for a hunt over the weekend... Singing Bridge was the only guy who picked his own spots. I was pretty impressed when given a map of a large swamp that is about 3 miles across, he picked 3 spots, and to my amazement, it was the same top three spots I had picked out of that same swamp almost right down to the tree...


Wow you both picking the same 3 spots is pretty cool. I have seen bio’s from most of the top names on this site, but haven’t seen one from SB. How bout it SB, would you show us your trophy room and give us some scoop on your style/methods of hunting?

X2!! You're up SB!!

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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:03 am

kenn1320 wrote:
dan wrote:I invited the pro-staff, mod's, and testers, over for a hunt over the weekend... Singing Bridge was the only guy who picked his own spots. I was pretty impressed when given a map of a large swamp that is about 3 miles across, he picked 3 spots, and to my amazement, it was the same top three spots I had picked out of that same swamp almost right down to the tree...


Wow you both picking the same 3 spots is pretty cool. I have seen bio’s from most of the top names on this site, but haven’t seen one from SB. How bout it SB, would you show us your trophy room and give us some scoop on your style/methods of hunting?


Guys, you can see the bio's of the prostaff by clicking on the Prostaff tab at the top of the page. If you are interested in reading mine, click on "Scott."

Also, I want to dispel the rumor that I am one of the "top names" on the site- but tell you that I am an average joe, like many of our members. I continue to learn from Dan, and many of you.

No trophy room / man cave here, my home is far too small for that. I've put up a number of my buck pics over the years, I'll see about getting a couple up after work. I post about my heavy pressure tactics all the time, but will elaborate on some of the differences / challenges faced here in MidMich when I get a minute. Thanks for showing an interest, guys! 8-)
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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby Singing Bridge » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:11 am

Here's my bio from up above, next paragraph down... I hunt heavy pressure public most often. Around home, the public land is riddled with roads and hunters. Typically you cannot walk a quarter of a mile without hitting a woods road, hunters / vehicles. Very few sanctuaries exist for the bucks around here, which dictates a lot of scouting for those "overlooked" areas. A two year old is a good buck here, and will score around 90" as an eight point. The very few three year olds out there average about 106" as an eight point. Poor nutrition, oftentimes no access to agriculture, and extreme hunting pressure make hunting here quite a challenge.

Scott Shawl
"Pressured Whitetails"


Scott Shawl is a lifelong Great Lakes State resident that began his hunting career in the public land cedar swamps of northern Michigan- the fourth generation of his family to do so. At age twelve, the first year he could legally bow hunt, he shimmied up a tree and took a buck with his recurve bow- despite having no tree stand, tree steps, or bow sight. Since then Scott has expanded his hunting to the extra-heavy pressure public land in Mid-Michigan, state and national forests of Michigan 's Upper Peninsula, and the wilds of Ontario , Canada . Scott is a public land, do-it-yourself specialist that has never been privy to a lease, or outfitted hunt for deer.

Scott is a Paramedic Supervisor that has worked for Mid Michigan Medical Center for the past 27 years. He began his EMS career by attending a local college for Emergency Medical Technician training at the age of 15. That same year he received his State license and began working on the local volunteer ambulance. He followed that up by becoming a state licensed Paramedic as a teenager. He currently serves on the Region 3 Bio-Terrorism Defense Network, hospital committees, and is charged with coordinating PR activities for Mid Michigan Medical Center EMS. Scott has organized and executed various marketing and volunteer campaigns to promote community awareness and involvement. He has been interviewed for newspaper articles as well as appeared on local television stations on issues ranging from healthcare to community projects and mileage proposals.

Scott earned a bachelor's degree in Business Administration from Davenport University . Scott's greatest hobbies and passions include hunting and fishing. His birth gift on the day he was born was a fishing rod and reel. He is also a pro staff member for Stealth Outdoors and actively shares his sportsman knowledge through hunting forums and outdoor hunting and fishing shows. Scott and his family reside in Michigan with regular trips to the Canada region.

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Here's some buck pics I have uploaded to Photobucket... If you read my bio you will see that I am a fourth generation hunter in Michigan. The last pic is my great-grandfather in 1913 Michigan.


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________________________________________________________________________

Regarding tactics, my style of hunting beds with a bow is heavily influenced by Dan's techniques.

In gun season and late season muzzleloader, when all else has failed, I approach things a bit differently... here is my post regarding late season and buck beds when bowhunting has been unsuccessful:

If you are hunting your home area of MidMichigan, you really have your work cut out for you. Even private property has any bucks with several birthdays behind them bedded well before daylight, typically. Public land in your area…. Nuff said. It sounds as though you are hunting a marsh? If you know where the buck you are after may be bedded, try moving in at first light with your treestand and muzzleloader (or hunt the ground) so that you make as little noise as possible. Set up downwind or crosswind from the typically small bedding area, within sight of its edge. Stay on stand and glass and/or watch that edge for the buck getting up and moving over a ways, to relieve himself or browse a bit before he beds back down. Stay alert and let him have it at the first good opportunity. I’ve shot a buck as he stood up in his bed, and I’ve shot a buck that moved 18 feet from his bed before I put him down hard, amongst others. Stay alert while hunting, and watch for birds flying out when he stands up, or a blue jay screaming at his movement, or a red squirrel alarm chattering…. You get the idea. My number one signal is hearing a twig snap in the bedding area if the wind isn’t blowing too hard for me to hear it. It takes excellent woodsman ship to approach a buck that close when you set up. If you don’t know where the bucks are bedding, study aerials and topo’s and scout for the rubs/tracks/droppings in the area while avoiding suspected bedding areas. Then make your play with the knowledge your scouting has given you, I’ve shot a buck when he stood up that I knew was in there somewhere just from the aforementioned scouting.
If you are hunting with a bow, it is even tougher on the heavy pressure areas. Foul weather may get him on his feet a little earlier than he has been, but it’s really hit or miss. You must have some days off where you can hunt in the evening? In the morning, you have to be even more creative…
If you are seeing late arrivals in the bedding area (first ten minutes of light), you probably do not have an area with the pressure I am speaking of, and consider yourself fortunate!
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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby Ack » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:22 pm

Singing Bridge wrote:Here's my bio from up above, next paragraph down... I hunt heavy pressure public most often. Around home, the public land is riddled with roads and hunters. Typically you cannot walk a quarter of a mile without hitting a woods road, hunters / vehicles. Very few sanctuaries exist for the bucks around here, which dictates a lot of scouting for those "overlooked" areas. A two year old is a good buck here, and will score around 90" as an eight point. The very few three year olds out there average about 106" as an eight point. Poor nutrition, oftentimes no access to agriculture, and extreme hunting pressure make hunting here quite a challenge.


Very true. I hunt these same areas and what Scott says is spot on. A hunter in this area who can consistently kill a two year old on public land every year is doing better than most hunters around here.
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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:35 am

Singing Bridge wrote:Here's my bio from up above, next paragraph down... I hunt heavy pressure public most often. Around home, the public land is riddled with roads and hunters. Typically you cannot walk a quarter of a mile without hitting a woods road, hunters / vehicles. Very few sanctuaries exist for the bucks around here, which dictates a lot of scouting for those "overlooked" areas. A two year old is a good buck here, and will score around 90" as an eight point. The very few three year olds out there average about 106" as an eight point. Poor nutrition, oftentimes no access to agriculture, and extreme hunting pressure make hunting here quite a challenge.

That is a good buck for the big woods of the northern lower. Where I have done most of my hunting 50"-60" is more like it. Here is a pick of one of the 2.5's I shot. It is the biggest 2.5 I have shot up in Michigan's north woods. In some places of the U.P. the DNR said that well over 50% of the 4.5 year old bucks don't even have four points on a side. Yet in the agricultural area's of southern Michigan that have good soil a 4.5 is going to be in the 170"-190"+ range for a typical and 180"-230"+ for non typical's. We even had a 2.5 year old 220" non typical hit by a car many years ago in southern Michigan. It just goes to show how poor the habitat has become on most of Michigan's public land.

Those are some very respectable bucks for where you hunt Scott. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby kenn1320 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Hey Scott, thanks for posting your photo's.

That is a good buck for the big woods of the northern lower. Where I have done most of my hunting 50"-60" is more like it. Here is a pick of one of the 2.5's I shot. It is the biggest 2.5 I have shot up in Michigan's north woods. In some places of the U.P. the DNR said that well over 50% of the 4.5 year old bucks don't even have four points on a side. Yet in the agricultural area's of southern Michigan that have good soil a 4.5 is going to be in the 170"-190"+ range for a typical and 180"-230"+ for non typical's. We even had a 2.5 year old 220" non typical hit by a car many years ago in southern Michigan. It just goes to show how poor the habitat has become on most of Michigan's public land.


I dont know about all that Lance. Some deer have potential to be big, others never will be big regardless of what they are fed. Ag land isnt everything, most of the problem here is lack of age. All one needs to see for proof was the GM vacant land on 12 mile and mound. It has since been sold and built on, but it was approx 1 sq mile of fenced land. A local friend and his dad were hired to catch all the deer out of there and move them to an undisclosed location up north. Needless to say, there was no ag over there, and for those of you that dont know, the surrounding land is tiny subdivided lots where you can cut your grass with a push mower in about 10min. The bucks they caught out of there were unreal! Some were almost black, as they had adapted to living underground in the sewer/drainage tubes. 2 guys snuck in there and each shot a buck before they trapped them out. I cant find the news story, but they were definitely shooters!
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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:31 pm

kenn1320 wrote:I dont know about all that Lance. Some deer have potential to be big, others never will be big regardless of what they are fed. Ag land isnt everything, most of the problem here is lack of age. All one needs to see for proof was the GM vacant land on 12 mile and mound. It has since been sold and built on, but it was approx 1 sq mile of fenced land. A local friend and his dad were hired to catch all the deer out of there and move them to an undisclosed location up north. Needless to say, there was no ag over there, and for those of you that dont know, the surrounding land is tiny subdivided lots where you can cut your grass with a push mower in about 10min. The bucks they caught out of there were unreal! Some were almost black, as they had adapted to living underground in the sewer/drainage tubes. 2 guys snuck in there and each shot a buck before they trapped them out. I cant find the news story, but they were definitely shooters!

You don't need AG land (or food plots) to grow big bucks, but you do need good nutrition and that can come in the form of fresh cut well fertilized lawns as well as landscape plants or the native plants that reap the benefits from excess fertilizer run off. The right native plants can provide proper nutrition. For example, giant ragweed can have 30% protein content. However, due to years of over population and cutting back on logging we have an inadequate supply plants that can supply quality nutrition on a lot of our public land. Especially in area's with poor soil.

While not every buck will get "big" almost every one of them with mid-western genetics will make the P&Y minimum at some point during there life if they are given a good start in life, adequate age, nutrition and are able to maintain good overall health. I believe most would make 140"+.

The buck I posted the pic of I believe would likely have scored 120"-130" under the above criteria.
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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:27 am

[Quote]That is a good buck for the big woods of the northern lower. Where I have done most of my hunting 50"-60" is more like it. Here is a pick of one of the 2.5's I shot. It is the biggest 2.5 I have shot up in Michigan's north woods. In some places of the U.P. the DNR said that well over 50% of the 4.5 year old bucks don't even have four points on a side. Yet in the agricultural area's of southern Michigan that have good soil a 4.5 is going to be in the 170"-190"+ range for a typical and 180"-230"+ for non typical's. We even had a 2.5 year old 220" non typical hit by a car many years ago in southern Michigan. It just goes to show how poor the habitat has become on most of Michigan's public land. " [quote]

Not to get off topic, but that is simply not true. Mature bucks in southern Michigan does not mean big antlers. I have hundreds of pics and history with deer that prove this. An 8 pt rack with roughly 120" antlers is what I would say is average. Very few ever break 140". In fact, I've ran 10+ cams in southern Michigan for over 9 years and have less than five mature deer that break 140". Just doesn't happen.
The numbers you posted are state record caliber, it could happen, but very rare.

Very cool thread. Looks like Singing Bridge is no doubt a beast! You're hunting the most difficult areas in the country.

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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:50 am

Ridgerunner7 wrote:
That is a good buck for the big woods of the northern lower. Where I have done most of my hunting 50"-60" is more like it. Here is a pick of one of the 2.5's I shot. It is the biggest 2.5 I have shot up in Michigan's north woods. In some places of the U.P. the DNR said that well over 50% of the 4.5 year old bucks don't even have four points on a side. Yet in the agricultural area's of southern Michigan that have good soil a 4.5 is going to be in the 170"-190"+ range for a typical and 180"-230"+ for non typical's. We even had a 2.5 year old 220" non typical hit by a car many years ago in southern Michigan. It just goes to show how poor the habitat has become on most of Michigan's public land. "

Not to get off topic, but that is simply not true. Mature bucks in southern Michigan does not mean big antlers. I have hundreds of pics and history with deer that prove this. An 8 pt rack with roughly 120" antlers is what I would say is average. Very few ever break 140". In fact, I've ran 10+ cams in southern Michigan for over 9 years and have less than five mature deer that break 140". Just doesn't happen.
The numbers you posted are state record caliber, it could happen, but very rare.

Very cool thread. Looks like Singing Bridge is no doubt a beast! You're hunting the most difficult areas in the country.

4.5 year old bucks in counties with good soil like Jackson and Washtenaw do not average 120". Not even close, but you are right, my numbers are high for the average in the area's I was talking about. I should have said that most typical's would run in the 160" to upper 170's and most non typical's would be in the 160"-190" range. Bucks over 200" are usually going to be older than 4 1/2. I have no doubt that a fair number of the 4.5 year old typical's are in the 180's & 190's though and I'm positive there is always at least one over 200" typical hiding somewhere in lower Michigan. I think people often overestimate the age of big bucks. I think most of the bucks people shoot that they think are 4.5+ are actually 3.5 or younger. This is based in large part to talking to people that had the teeth cross sectioned.
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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:06 am

Not trying to be a stickler or get off topic but That's simply not true. Do you have proof that the average buck in Jackson co will reach BandC status? Top buck in Michigan in 2006 grossed 173" typical. That's in the entire state. Top buck in Hillsdale a few years back was 152".. I have hundreds of pics from those areas that prove otherwise. I also age many of my deer through CA as do many other guys I know. I'm certain my info is pretty accurate. Majority of deer are main frame 8s. They will never break 170 or 180 much less 140". Maybe the occasional freak but not your average buck. I'll change and say 120-130 tops average .

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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby Jdub » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:19 am

Ridge runner is right, I've hunted in hillsdale county for over 20 years on a prime chunk of private land. In those twenty years there have over around a dozen 3.5 or older bucks taken, the biggest being 160, all of the rest falling between 115-140. I also run up to 5 cameras all year long, although sightings on stand are rare, the cams tell the story, they are out there. But they do not average anywhere close to your numbers. Not to mention the fact that a 10pt in Mi is like finding a four leaf clover. I'd say 80% of mature bucks I get on cam are only 8pts. Hard to score over 150 as an 8pt

I also worked at one of the largest deer processors in the state also located in hillsdale cty, for 15 years. I've seen quite a few 150-160 " bucks come thru, but not more than a handful a year.

Not many bucks in MI live to see maturity, but when they do I'd guess the average score for a 3.5-4.5 old buck is maybe scores 130 and that would be a very generous estimate. Bigger bucks are out there and get shot every year, but they are far from the norm.

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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby JML2 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:42 pm

I'm with RidgeRunner and JDub on this one. I bought my Hillsdale county (southern MI ag) farm 8 years ago. I figured if I could provide good cover, food, water and let the bucks get some age on them I would have a bunch of giants running around.

Every year I have quite a few 3.5, 4.5, and sometimes older bucks running around. Seems like most bucks around me want to be an 8 point in that 125 range. We have gotten them bigger but it is the exception. For whatever reason 10 points are hard to come by.

Each year we seem to get an older buck with a 6 or 7 point rack that might not crack 110. Big body, heavy rack, but not that impressive.

I really do wish the average 4.5 year old in southern Michigan was as big as you say but it just isn't true.

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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby dan » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:47 pm

I have read that Michigan is one of the top 10 Boone and Crockett buck producing states... So I did a google and found these stats...


TOP TEN WHITETAIL STATES
STATE
# OF ENTRIES
1. IOWA
615
2. MINNESOTA
608
3. WISCONSIN
589
4. ILLINOIS
552
5. TEXAS
316
6. MISSOURI
285
7. KENTUCKY
279
8. KANSAS
255
9. OHIO
235
10. MICHIGAN
155
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Re: Great minds think alike... (singing bridge)

Unread postby kenn1320 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:56 pm

dan wrote:I have read that Michigan is one of the top 10 Boone and Crockett buck producing states... So I did a google and found these stats...


TOP TEN WHITETAIL STATES
STATE
# OF ENTRIES
1. IOWA
615
2. MINNESOTA
608
3. WISCONSIN
589
4. ILLINOIS
552
5. TEXAS
316
6. MISSOURI
285
7. KENTUCKY
279
8. KANSAS
255
9. OHIO
235
10. MICHIGAN
155


Interesting Dan, but I wonder if most of those werent entered YEARS ago and Michigan is slowly being bumped off the list? I think it does show that the "average" as Lance put it is not B&C, or the number of entries would be much higher.
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