Sound Information

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hoyt
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby hoyt » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:06 am

Uncle Lou wrote:
hoyt wrote:I would pay good money for one of those if [glow=red]it[/glow] would give directions to a gobble. Also I never have bought into the idea of quieting a recurve..what I shoot..so quiet that a deer wouldn't jump the string. It's going to hear the twang no matter what you do.


What is [glow=red]it[/glow] a sound level meter, or a deers ear?


The sound meter. I'm just about deaf in one ear, have no high frequency hearing and constant ringing in my ears. Been suggesting for a few yrs. somebody ought to invent a hearing meter that could point you in direction of the noise...gobbles in particular.

EDIT..Oh..the "it" was both. Meter for the gobbles and deer for the twang.


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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby kenn1320 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:44 pm

hoyt wrote:I would pay good money for one of those if it would give directions to a gobble. Also I never have bought into the idea of quieting a recurve..what I shoot..so quiet that a deer wouldn't jump the string. It's going to hear the twang no matter what you do.


I dont have a lot of experience with the trad gear, but I can tell you the few experiences I had amazed me. I had 2 does walk by me and one went to the food plot, the other was cautious and waited and scanned the area. To her suprise I was 20ft above and 8yds back when I put an arrow in her. She bolted across the food plot and out of sight. The other doe that was with her watched her run off, then went back to feeding within 20yds of me.

Another time I had 3 does come in and I picked the biggest one and shot right over her. She jumped and the other 2 froze. She went back to feeding and so did the other ones. I just looked at my lighted nock and thought today isnt my day, not going to just keep shooting. I have never had deer act in this manner when I used my compound. Both of these stories happened in the last few years in southern michigan where there is plenty of hunting pressure. I am looking to try to make my recurve as quiet as possible, but its no longbow. :?
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby Brad » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:01 pm

Lou, any idea what a metalic clank, like on a stand could do on the meter and how far it might carry on a calm day?
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby NatureBoy » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:48 am

kenn1320 wrote:I dont have a lot of experience with the trad gear, but I can tell you the few experiences I had amazed me. I had 2 does walk by me and one went to the food plot, the other was cautious and waited and scanned the area. To her suprise I was 20ft above and 8yds back when I put an arrow in her. She bolted across the food plot and out of sight. The other doe that was with her watched her run off, then went back to feeding within 20yds of me.

I had a similar experience last year, only I was shooting a muzzleloader. Three does came over a hill opposite of my and started feeding on the side facing my position. I was on an opposite hill, 30 yards away laying in prone position. I watched them feed a while hoping a buck was in tow. Light was fading so after a while I decided to take the lead doe. BAM! She tumbled down the hill. The other two jumped and then just stood there and then went back to feeding. Eventually they slowly moved off the hill in the direction they had come from. The sound of the gun didn't seem to freak them out at all.
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby jlh42581 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:41 am

Southern Man wrote:
73 degrees at 4pm in the middle of August? Wow, there's something to be said for the north.



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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby MOBIGBUCKS » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:36 pm

Excellent info Uncle Lou. Have you tested any bows with a string stop versus bows without one? Seems like all of the manufacturers are now putting these standard on bows, so there must be some industry testing to back up the effectiveness of them.
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:01 am

MOBIGBUCKS wrote:Excellent info Uncle Lou. Have you tested any bows with a string stop versus bows without one? Seems like all of the manufacturers are now putting these standard on bows, so there must be some industry testing to back up the effectiveness of them.


I have not. I just received a new mag the other day -ArrowTrade-. This mag usually has multiple bow reports, I always glance through the tables looking for the dB. The very usual range of bow noise is 78-87dB. Here is what I find interesting with bow noise. Here is some info on the Strother Hope (Women's model) 50 lbs and 26 1/8" draw

Arrow Weight Speed Noise output
250 grains 284.7fps 87.2dB
300 grains 243.5 fps 85.7dB
350 grains 245.1 fps 79.5dB
450 grains 218.1 fps 78dB

Early on in this thread, I tried to make the point that no matter how quiet you get your bow, it will still be heard by a deer within shooting range. 80 dB +/-, or in the above case 78-87dB, is going to be heard to some distance, well beyond 20-30 yds. Whether or not the deer reacts to the sound is to be determined by the deer.

Now I would still want to try to take 9 dB off my bow if I could (partly because I am a quiet freak) and also because I think noise is wasted energy that harms my bow. I found it very interesting how a heavy arrow set up drains noise, although it does sacrifice speed. But like I mentioned earlier, the speed of sound is much faster than the fastest arrow.

Slightly off topic but if I had the above info as I was selecting and setting up this bow, I would go with the 350 grain set up. In addition based on other information presented in the chart by choosing the 350 grain arrow compared to the 250 grain arrow, I lose ~40 fps, but gain kinetic energy (46.7 vs. 45), momentum goes to 12.3 from 10.2, and the dynamic efficiency goes to 83.2% from 80.2%.

I don't want to get to technical here, but Rancid did a great post on bow efficiency, I think in Equipment thread if you want more info on this.
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:22 am

Brad Lamont wrote:Lou, any idea what a metalic clank, like on a stand could do on the meter and how far it might carry on a calm day?


I have not and could very easily and report it here, and still may. The difficulty would be in measuring the intensity of the hit.

I could be accused of banging hard with metal against metal, then wrapping them with some fabric (oh say Stealth Strips) or hockey tape or spraying them with some type of rubberized coating and then say see how quiet they are. Now Lungbuster did this and posted a utube video in the equipment section a while back (couple months?). So you could watch him bang before and after and see the reduction for yourself.

I would say this to your question, if deer hearing is similar to ours and you can hear it, and then wrap your sticks with something and notice a big improvement then it should be addressed.

On the how far it would carry would depend on where. On the edge of an open field one October night, me on the north end and a friend on the south end, he shot and missed a deer - Twice. When we were back at the truck, I said well. He said I missed, I said both times? He said you couldn't hear my bow, I said then how did I know you missed twice. He kinda mumbled something, my mathews can't be heard across the field. We are talking over 100yds away maybe 175 I heard his bow twice. His bow was likely around 80dB, that is right where my mathews was.

I would guess an inadvertent metal clank could be anywhere from 40-80 db (I know that is a big range). this sound could carry across an open field much more easily than through a thicket, where sound is absorbed.
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby MOBIGBUCKS » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:26 am

I'd love to test my center pivot Bowtech Guardian. Supposedly it's been voted one of the quietest hunting bows ever made; It is the quietest bow I have ever shot. I'm shooting a 472 grain arrow at 58-60 pounds, so I'm sure that heavy arrow would also make a big difference as you illustrated in the above posts.
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby bowhunter15 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:50 pm

Cool discussion. When I first started bowhunting, I loaded my bow up with limbsavers. I had two in-line stabilizers, string leeches, cable leeches, limb-bolt silencers, alpha-shox for the limbs, extra limbsavers, little adhesive dampeners, on quiver, sight, etc, and an STS mount. The bow was nearly 10 pounds, and it sucked carrying it way back on all of my hunts. That was the main reason I got rid of just about all of it. One small stabilizer, the original alphashox, and the STS are all I use now. Is it louder? Yea probably. But like was said, we're still talking dB levels in the 70s-80s approx. Either way, with or without silencers, it's going to be heard on a quiet day. I'm glad I made the switch because now my bow's a lot easier to carry.

I've also always thought that the type of sound is more important than the intensity. Metallic clanks are always bad regardless of how loud, whereas a squirrel dropping an acorn might startle a deer, but they get over it. Also, about the whole decibel system, it was something that I didn't really understand until last year. Without getting too detailed, it's best to remember that it's not a linear scale. I used to think that something 80 dB was twice as loud as something 40 dB. When in fact the 80 dB noise has 10,000 times as much power!

If anyone is interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby dan » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:05 am

8-)
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:44 am

Your bumping some old ones dan. There was a lot of information and great quetions in that one.

Way back when dan first started this site, I did a post with a bunch of sound information, it got buried and did not have near the conversation this one had. It was similar to a piece I had on an old website and I still have it on my current one. Here is a link to that
http://www.stealthoutdoors.com/2012/03/17/october-2011/

I would edit this old one a bit as I did the piece in the link above back in 2008, if there is any interest I could answer some more questions. I still have my decibel meter
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:50 am

I recently read an article in the October issue of Michigan Woods N Water called

Is 100% Stealth Possible and it got me thinking of this thread and I reviewed it again. There is some pretty good information here.

Here is a link to the website with some videos of the gentlemen who wrote the article. I will see if I can find the link to the article on WNW's website.
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Re: Sound Information

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:28 am

bump
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