Predator Scent?

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JakeJD
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Predator Scent?

Unread postby JakeJD » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:11 am

The recent thread about the use of rubber boots got me thinking about human scent versus predator scent. I think hunters tend to throw all human scent into one large "foreign odor." When in reality, deer smell individual odors. Some foreign odors turn the deer inside out, while other foreign odors seem only to pique their curiosity if they acknowledge the smell at all.

Does anyone have any experience with or has anyone read any research about the concept of predator scent? I recall one of Dan's stories about how some deer freaked out and busted out of an area when a feral cat got upwind of them. The cat posed no immediate threat to the animals, but the deer still reacted to their flight instinct. Certainly, deer do no mind when a cottontail or some turkeys get upwind of them.

I have heard that our bodies constantly emit gas through the skin. Maybe we emit a distinct gas through our skin because of the meat we consume and digest? Maybe the skin cells that we constantly shed hold a certain odor distinct to meat eaters?


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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby dan » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:23 am

Im on board with you... I am sure they can smell the difference between meat eaters and non-meat eaters. Seeing
that cat reaction you mentioned was really an eye opener. I wish there was a research group that did more of this type of research to proove or disproove how they smell, bed, travel, and react.
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Schultzy » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:09 am

Good post! I'm In agreement with you and Dan here.
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Stanley » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:49 am

I think it all depends on who has the advantage. If a deer knows the danger exists they act way differently than if they get caught off guard. I have seen deer watch dogs, coyotes, bobcats, and people from up wind and not do anything but just stand still and let the danger pass. This game camera picture illustrates to some extent of what I'm talking about. The raccoon was up wind of the Bobcat and just watched it pass by. Now, if the bobcat knows the raccoon is there it's a different story and I get no cool picture.

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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby JakeJD » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:30 am

Stanley wrote:I think it all depends on who has the advantage. If a deer knows the danger exists they act way differently than if they get caught off guard. I have seen deer watch dogs, coyotes, bobcats, and people from up wind and not do anything but just stand still and let the danger pass. This game camera picture illustrates to some extent of what I'm talking about. The raccoon was up wind of the Bobcat and just watched it pass by. Now, if the bobcat knows the raccoon is there it's a different story and I get no cool picture.

Image


Great picture.

I agree with you as well. This rifle season, I had a couple of known bedding areas upwind of me and at first light a couple of does were going crazy stomping and snorting. I thought maybe the wind had some crazy swirl or the does cut my track, backtracked and then went crazy. As the morning grew lighter, I realized that the does were stomping / snorting at a couple of coyotes. The deer never busted out of the area and stayed tight to their bedding cover, but they definitely let the coyotes know that they didn't like their presence. Interesting because coyotes defintely pose a threat to deer, but the deer held tight and only stomped / snorted.
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Mike » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:40 pm

Stan pretty sure thats two bobcats! I got some scientific info on predator scent I will put up later, most of it is about mice but they are a scent based prey animal and I think there are some similarities that exist as far as prey instincts go.


Stanley wrote:I think it all depends on who has the advantage. If a deer knows the danger exists they act way differently than if they get caught off guard. I have seen deer watch dogs, coyotes, bobcats, and people from up wind and not do anything but just stand still and let the danger pass. This game camera picture illustrates to some extent of what I'm talking about. The raccoon was up wind of the Bobcat and just watched it pass by. Now, if the bobcat knows the raccoon is there it's a different story and I get no cool picture.

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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Mike » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:16 pm

Physiol Behav. 1998 Nov 15;65(2):247-54.
Modulation of mice anxiety in response to cat odor as a consequence of predators diet.
Berton F, Vogel E, Belzung C.
Source
LEPCO, UFR Sciences et Techniques, Tours, France.
Abstract
The effectiveness of predator odours as repellents was assessed, and the behavioral antipredatory responses were characterized. Mice had free access to an unfamiliar runway containing different olfactory stimuli: modelling clay, or feces of a cat subjected either to a vegetarian or a carnivorous diet. The first experiment revealed various indices of a spontaneous behavioral pattern that included exploratory activity, different kinds of emotionality, and a range of active or passive defensive reactions until the appearance of absence of risk assessment strictly related to presence or absence of anxiety. These reactions differ with larger responses to feces resulting from a carnivorous as opposed to vegetarian diets. In the second experiment, chlordiazepoxide (0, 2.5, 5, or 7.5 mg/kg) had a dose-related anxiolytic effect on exploration in mice of both vegetarian and carnivorous groups but could not totally reverse the strong anxiogenic effect of carnivorous stimulus on defensive mechanisms. These differences are related to the nature of the mammalian cues. This paradigm may be a fear-motivated model of animal anxiety.
PMID:
9855473
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Curr Biol. 2007 Nov 20;17(22):1938-42. Epub 2007 Oct 18.
Elephants classify human ethnic groups by odor and garment color.
Bates LA, Sayialel KN, Njiraini NW, Moss CJ, Poole JH, Byrne RW.
Source
School of Psychology, University of St. Andrews, St Andrews, KY16 9JP, United Kingdom.
Abstract
Animals can benefit from classifying predators or other dangers into categories, tailoring their escape strategies to the type and nature of the risk. Studies of alarm vocalizations have revealed various levels of sophistication in classification. In many taxa, reactions to danger are inflexible, but some species can learn the level of threat presented by the local population of a predator or by specific, recognizable individuals. Some species distinguish several species of predator, giving differentiated warning calls and escape reactions; here, we explore an animal's classification of subgroups within a species. We show that elephants distinguish at least two Kenyan ethnic groups and can identify them by olfactory and color cues independently. In the Amboseli ecosystem, Kenya, young Maasai men demonstrate virility by spearing elephants (Loxodonta africana), but Kamba agriculturalists pose little threat. Elephants showed greater fear when they detected the scent of garments previously worn by Maasai than by Kamba men, and they reacted aggressively to the color associated with Maasai. Elephants are therefore able to classify members of a single species into subgroups that pose different degrees of danger.
PMID:
17949977
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2011 Jul 5;108(27):11235-40. Epub 2011 Jun 20.
Detection and avoidance of a carnivore odor by prey.
Ferrero DM, Lemon JK, Fluegge D, Pashkovski SL, Korzan WJ, Datta SR, Spehr M, Fendt M, Liberles SD.
Source
Departments of Cell Biology and Neurobiology, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115.
Abstract
Predator-prey relationships provide a classic paradigm for the study of innate animal behavior. Odors from carnivores elicit stereotyped fear and avoidance responses in rodents, although sensory mechanisms involved are largely unknown. Here, we identified a chemical produced by predators that activates a mouse olfactory receptor and produces an innate behavioral response. We purified this predator cue from bobcat urine and identified it to be a biogenic amine, 2-phenylethylamine. Quantitative HPLC analysis across 38 mammalian species indicates enriched 2-phenylethylamine production by numerous carnivores, with some producing >3,000-fold more than herbivores examined. Calcium imaging of neuronal responses in mouse olfactory tissue slices identified dispersed carnivore odor-selective sensory neurons that also responded to 2-phenylethylamine. Two prey species, rat and mouse, avoid a 2-phenylethylamine odor source, and loss-of-function studies involving enzymatic depletion of 2-phenylethylamine from a carnivore odor indicate it to be required for full avoidance behavior. Thus, rodent olfactory sensory neurons and chemosensory receptors have the capacity for recognizing interspecies odors. One such cue, carnivore-derived 2-phenylethylamine, is a key component of a predator odor blend that triggers hard-wired aversion circuits in the rodent brain. These data show how a single, volatile chemical detected in the environment can drive an elaborate danger-associated behavioral response in mammals.
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Mike » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:39 pm

Here's some excepts from a very interesting book, Animals in Translation. Lot of good info on animal behavior and how they sense, react, think etc.

"When it comes to picking up a predator's scent, the close-up system lets a rat smell a cat that's sitting no more than a foot or two away. The distant system lets rats smell a cat way off in the distance.
So naturally everyone assumed that rats and any animal who's vulnerable to being attacked and eaten would use their distant smell system to stay out of danger. It just stood to reason that if you're a rat and you don't react to a cat until you're face-to-face with it, it's too late. You're lunch.
But it turns out that's not the way things work at all. The distant system isn't connected to fear centers in the rat's brain, and the smell of a predator in the distance does not motivate a rat to flee. The distant smell system doesn't affect a rat emotionally or behaviorally at all.
It's the close-up system that's connected to the fear centers in the rat's brain, and it's the close-up system that activates survival behaviors like freezing in place or fleeing. It's the close-up system that keeps rats alive. We know this from experiments comparing rats whose close-up system has been disconnected from the rest of the brain to rats whose long-distance system has been disconnected. (This is done by snipping the fibers connecting the two inside the brain.) Only rats who have an intact close-up smell system act scared when they smell a predator. The instant they smell cat they freeze and start dropping more pellets of poop, classic signs of fear. The rats whose brains are getting input only from long-distance smell don't react at all. They feel nothing emotionally.
Researchers were stunned to get this result. It was completely counterintuitive, because why would nature want a rat to wait to get scared until he's standing face-to-face with a cat?
The answer is nature wouldn't want that, and that's not what nature did. What nature did by linking close-up smell to fear was to give the rat the ability to predict the future.
Here's how it works. In the wild, rats get scared when they wander into a place where a predator has been in the past. There's no cat there now (or let's hope not), but there's plenty of cat smell, and the rat is right on top of it when his close-smell system picks up the scent. Since most predators are territorial, where a cat has been in the past is an excellent indication of where it's going to be in the future. So the rat's close-up "scary smell" system lets it predict where any cats in the area are going to be and then get out of the way before they get there. It's an early warning system. Animal emotions help animals stay out of trouble in the first place, which is a very good idea if you're a rat. It's probably a good idea if you're a dog or a cat, too. Cats might want to stay away from major dog spots, and dogs who've lost fights might want to stay away from spots the victor dog is going to be visiting soon.
It seems like Mother Nature thinks an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And emotions are essential to prevention. A healthy fear system keeps animals, and people, alive by allowing them to predict the future.
When you think about emotions as a prediction system, it stands to reason that close-up smell would be wired to fear. But it's still not obvious why nature would wire up a rat's brain so that it doesn't feel fear when it smells a real live cat off in the distance. Shouldn't a rat who knows there's a cat in the detectable distance be motivated to put even more distance between itself and death-by-cat?
I don't think so. Fear is such an overwhelming emotion for an animal that evolution probably selected for brain systems that keep it under control."
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Mike » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:50 pm

Another excerpt from the same book:

There's a fair amount of research showing that certain basic fears are built into animals and people. The visual cliff experiments I described in Chapter 2, showing very young children and animals refusing to crawl or walk over what looks to them like a cliff, are an example of an innate, inborn fear. No one has to teach young humans or animals to fear heights. They already know.

More recently, Jaak Panksepp found that laboratory-reared rats who've never seen or smelled a cat stop playing the instant you put a tuft of cat hair in their play space. Since frightened animals don't play, that's a good indication that those rats are afraid. "The animals moved furtively," Dr. Panksepp says in Affective Neuroscience, "cautiously sniffing the fur and other parts of their environment. They seemed to sense that something was seriously amiss."
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby dan » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:24 am

Awesome info Mike!
We work with a lot of raccoons here so I am always looking at them. Pretty sure thats two bobcats myself... The ears have me convinced. I think Stans thoughts on animals sitting back and watching from down wind might be right though.
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby JakeJD » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:55 am

Great info Mike, thanks for sharing.
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby JakeJD » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:00 am

Mike wrote:Odors from carnivores elicit stereotyped fear and avoidance responses in rodents, although sensory mechanisms involved are largely unknown. Here, we identified a chemical produced by predators that activates a mouse olfactory receptor and produces an innate behavioral response. We purified this predator cue from bobcat urine and identified it to be a biogenic amine, 2-phenylethylamine. Quantitative HPLC analysis across 38 mammalian species indicates enriched 2-phenylethylamine production by numerous carnivores, with some producing >3,000-fold more than herbivores examined.


So the 2-phenylethylamine chemical is abundant in carnivores, how does the odor enter the environment?

I see that the chemical was found in bobcat urine. Does a carnivore also emit the chemical through their skin, their breath, etc.?
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Chinook » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:54 am

I believe it's the same reason a dog will roll around on a dead deer. He's trying to mask or change his scent.
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Mike » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:59 am

It could come from skin a little bit but would think mostly urine, feces and breath.
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Re: Predator Scent?

Unread postby Schultzy » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:13 am

Great Info Mike!! I've always been on the fence with peeing In scrapes or just peeing In the woods period. I don't do It much at all. Are they saying animals can tell the difference In predator pee over non predator pee? Sounds as though their saying that.


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