Wind & Bedding

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Southern Man
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Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Southern Man » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:50 pm

Dan wrote:
Deer travel from bedding to food without regard to wind direction. However, when you need to hunt much farther back, than you would like, or when your dealing with a certain buck that moves very little in daylight, sometimes waiting for the day he can smell whats ahead of him will get him moving a little earlier, a little farther from his bed.


........ I thought they bedded in a certain bed based on the wind that day, and knowing where they were going to feed that evening. This buck Stan shot seemed to bed there all the time, regardless of wind. The water hole portions of Hill country dvd specifically say you guys dont hunt the water hole till you have a just off wind.

There are some instances when bucks bed based on wind direction, and there are some beds that are used on any wind. In hill country "most" beds are based on wind, and setting up above the beds ( up wind ) is the norm if you want to be successful. I can't speak for Stan, but I believe this was the type of bed where the buck bedded on any wind, or at least on the wind he was killed on... If you read back posts on my discussions about wind based beds, and "off winds" you will see what I am saying has not changed... We probably should stat a "wind" thread though, cause I have seen a lot of confusion on this topic...


So, a buck bed based on wind and the direction he travels when he rises are 2 different things, correct? I am assuming wind is more imortant while he's bedding than when he travels in the evening. Also, traveling with the wind at his back in the morning allows the buck to smell if something is trailing him? Are these assumptions the norm?


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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:39 am

I think it really depends on where you're hunting and the pressure in the area. In Michigan where I hunt, if OUTSIDE of the rut I don't see mature deer travel with the wind at their back that often. During the rut I do when their scent checking does, etc. If the wind isn't in their favor they simply sit tight till dark or stage very close to their bed where you'll have to be very close to get a visual. Again, this is just MY experience. If a buck travels without the advantage of wind here he will walk within range of several tree stands and awaiting hunters before he reaches his destination. Small broken up parcels and several hunters on each parcel ensure this. Now I said I dont see it that often. When I do, it's within this daytime saftey area..or bedding area. I have seen movement with wind at their back within that area.

In some other places that recieve less pressure and perhaps in Stan's case..maybe that buck felt perfectly comfortable moving to his water hole because Stan stayed out of the area and waited until the pefrect wind where he was undetectable. A great tactic by the way and perfectly played out by Stan! Combine the buck feeling little pressure with the heat and time of year..that buck was due to be on his feet and headed towards water. I see this behavior more when I hunted Iowa, Illinois,Illinois, and sometimes in Ohio etc. A woods like that where I hunt would have no less that 15 tree stands in it. And that's not an exaggeration.


Just another example of how extremes in pressure can dictate different deer behavior in my opinion. Any thoughts on this Dan?
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:30 am

So, a buck bed based on wind and the direction he travels when he rises are 2 different things, correct? I am assuming wind is more imortant while he's bedding than when he travels in the evening. Also, traveling with the wind at his back in the morning allows the buck to smell if something is trailing him? Are these assumptions the norm?

Correct...
I can elaborate a little more later. Im at work right now.

Just another example of how extremes in pressure can dictate different deer behavior in my opinion. Any thoughts on this Dan?

A lot of the places I hunt are also extreme pressure. I seldom see mature bucks leave there safety area out side of rut in daylight in the pressure areas, but when I do, direction of wind has not been much of a factor. As a matter of fact, I see it more often "wind to back" in pressure situations.
When I have been involved in deer drives here, the biggest bucks would either run straight down wind, or circle down wind over 90% of the time to have the wind at there back... Guess thats a little different, cause they want to make sure the drivers are not following them... But when I think back, the majority of my bucks were shot with the wind to there back.
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:45 am

Just another example of how extremes in pressure can dictate different deer behavior in my opinion. Any thoughts on this Dan?

A lot of the places I hunt are also extreme pressure. I seldom see mature bucks leave there safety area out side of rut in daylight in the pressure areas, but when I do, direction of wind has not been much of a factor. As a matter of fact, I see it more often "wind to back" in pressure situations.
When I have been involved in deer drives here, the biggest bucks would either run straight down wind, or circle down wind over 90% of the time to have the wind at there back... Guess thats a little different, cause they want to make sure the drivers are not following them... But when I think back, the majority of my bucks were shot with the wind to there back.[/quote]

Interesting. I've seen in in their safety zone or bedding area where they feel comfortable but not much out of it unless it's during the rut. I've seen it some...just not with the biggest bucks I've taken.

Why do you think they disregard the wind at times in such a pressured setting? Because they can utilize their other senses more efficiently in that setting? If they walked with the wind at their back with any regularity wouldn't they get shot pretty quick by any of the other hunters in the area?
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Mule Feathers » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:35 am

I look forward to hearing Dan elaborate on this. It does make sense to me that a deer would walk with the wind at their back so they can smell what's behind them. They have ears and eyes to keep them from walking into danger. I know that's kinda a general way to look at it and a lot of situations could determine how they travel in relation to the wind but wind at their back seems more logical to me a lot of time. Of course I don't have to worry about coyotes, wolves or having an arrow shot through my lungs! lol
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Southern Man » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:12 am

I've seen it both ways. Generally, the wind doesn't seem to make a difference in direction of travel unless around bedding, be the bucks or doe bedding, or a field edge, somewhere around expected danger. I have seen them circle to check an area where hunters frequent also. But just traveling they seem like they could care less.

The closest experience I have with mature bucks are 3.5 year olds, so I'm not qualified to pass a judgement here. But, looking back at the last 3 bucks I've killed, 2010 had a 3.5yo buck come to bedded does with the wind to his face, harrass them a bit then head off and circle to come into his bed 75-100yards away. That evening, he rose, came back to the does with the wind to his back and stood right underneath me lookin at the does, I shot him. 2008 a 3.5 yo buck came by me 30 minutes before daylight, (spooked by another hunter) bedded about 50 yards away and an hour later, got up and headed thru the woods with the wind at his back right past me, I shot him. 2006 a 3.5 yo buck came past me with the wind in his face and I shot him before he could smell me. But he was within 100 yards of a cornfield. The first two didn't seem concerned with the wind but the 2006 buck did as he got close to the field.

It appears that wind is more of a concern when the buck feels danger could be ahead but not as much when he's semi comfortable. Last December a 3.5-4.5 yo buck came by me with the wind to his back all the way. I had no shot. This was late season, in the woods, and pressure wasn't a factor. But that's only 4 instances, all on the same farm, but seems to go along with what dan is saying. But throw danger in the mix and it might be another story, I dunno...
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:33 am

Mule Feathers wrote:I look forward to hearing Dan elaborate on this. It does make sense to me that a deer would walk with the wind at their back so they can smell what's behind them. They have ears and eyes to keep them from walking into danger. I know that's kinda a general way to look at it and a lot of situations could determine how they travel in relation to the wind but wind at their back seems more logical to me a lot of time. Of course I don't have to worry about coyotes, wolves or having an arrow shot through my lungs! lol
.
Like I said, I've seen it in other states more often it seems. Less in my home state but I have seen it. I haven't taken any mature bucks in the morning outside the rut so I have limited experience at that time but I've seen a few go to bed with wind at back from a distance deep in a marsh at first light. I don't set up with wind dead in my face too often in the early season where there on a bed to feed pattern unless I'm in the bedding area tight with the buck. Then, yes I've seen it within the confines of safety. Seems in other setups outside the bedding they simply don't show til after dark. Perhaps I'm making a mistake though not hunting this more in the early season? I tend to look for a cross wind that keeps me safe and gives the buck the benefit of his nose. Or I look for a weakness in his travel route that he has to give up his nose at some point.... A ravine, a deadfall, a river bend, a pond/lake, or some other barrier. I get kills in these spots.

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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:38 am

Southern Man wrote:I've seen it both ways. Generally, the wind doesn't seem to make a difference in direction of travel unless around bedding, be the bucks or doe bedding, or a field edge, somewhere around expected danger. I have seen them circle to check an area where hunters frequent also. But just traveling they seem like they could care less.

The closest experience I have with mature bucks are 3.5 year olds, so I'm not qualified to pass a judgement here. But, looking back at the last 3 bucks I've killed, 2010 had a 3.5yo buck come to bedded does with the wind to his face, harrass them a bit then head off and circle to come into his bed 75-100yards away. That evening, he rose, came back to the does with the wind to his back and stood right underneath me lookin at the does, I shot him. 2008 a 3.5 yo buck came by me 30 minutes before daylight, (spooked by another hunter) bedded about 50 yards away and an hour later, got up and headed thru the woods with the wind at his back right past me, I shot him. 2006 a 3.5 yo buck came past me with the wind in his face and I shot him before he could smell me. But he was within 100 yards of a cornfield. The first two didn't seem concerned with the wind but the 2006 buck did as he got close to the field.

It appears that wind is more of a concern when the buck feels danger could be ahead but not as much when he's semi comfortable. Last December a 3.5-4.5 yo buck came by me with the wind to his back all the way. I had no shot. This was late season, in the woods, and pressure wasn't a factor. But that's only 4 instances, all on the same farm, but seems to go along with what dan is saying. But throw danger in the mix and it might be another story, I dunno...


Most of the places I'm refering to there is danger in every direction. During the rut I see it all the time. In fact one of my favs is just down wind of a doe bedding area with the wind in my face! Bucks are cruising and circle in with the wind at their back to scent check the area. When the instincts turn to procreation instead of survival...I see it way more often. Interesting though. I love discussing wind!

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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:28 am

My sightings are mainly in what I consider the safe zone... I rarely see mature bucks during season outside the rut beyond the safe zone. Maybe once or a couple times a year on pressured public.
When I do see them move outside of there safe zone its because they trust the area and feel safe... Remember, I hunt 90% of my spots only once a year, so my danger has not been there before... I do see fairly often, other hunters sets that are close to bedding and the bucks figure them out and circle down wind to scent check if the hunter is there or not... I see this in trail evidence, and have had success setting up down wind of other hunters set ups that I feel are over hunted.
I see a lot more mature bucks beyond there safe zone when I hunted managed land, again, not much correlation with wind "unless" they are coming up to a danger spot... But most truly mature bucks in my opinion won't do that in the 1st place, especially outside of the rut...
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:46 am

Wind based bedding:

Bucks bed in specific spots for specific reasons... I do not believe anything a mature buck does is "random"
Bed positions for mature bucks seem to be picked based on detecting danger before it gets to the buck, while offering a secure escape rought.
The beds are picked based on the buck being able to detect the hunter, or predator, by:
Sight
Sound
Smell
Or a combination of the three...

Hill country beds are usually picked based on both wind direction and sight. Most hunters who hunt on a ridge choose the wrong side, cause they want the wind in there face. If there facing the ridge side that has the wind blowing there face, the buck is bedded on the other side with the wind blowing over his back while catching thermals from below, and seeing the valley floor.
So a hunter hunting on a ridge has to hunt a just off wind in order to take advantage of deer bedding on points. And in this scenario, the deer will always be coming quartering into the wind because thats what your set up for, not because thats the only direction they go...

Another type of wind based bed, is the type on the edge of a field or opening. Bucks will prefer to have the wind tell them whats behind them in the woods, while there eyes watch whats in front of them.

Most wind based beds are also sight based beds... But not all of them.
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby backstraps » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:03 pm

dan wrote:
So a hunter hunting on a ridge has to [glow=red]hunt a just off wind[/glow] in order to take advantage of deer bedding on points. And in this scenario, the deer will always be coming quartering into the wind because thats what your set up for, not because thats the only direction they go...




Dan, this is something I cant really understand... hunting just off wind.

So if I suspected a buck to be bedding on for example the east side of a ridge, also the leeward side.
I understand I wouldnt want to be facing the west side of the ridge where my wind is coming from...as well
as setup directly above him where my scent would fall into the wind tunnel where he may be bedded.

How do I hunt off wind?
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:32 pm

Ridgerunner7 wrote:I think it really depends on where you're hunting and the pressure in the area. In Michigan where I hunt, if OUTSIDE of the rut I don't see mature deer travel with the wind at their back that often. During the rut I do when their scent checking does, etc. If the wind isn't in their favor they simply sit tight till dark or stage very close to their bed where you'll have to be very close to get a visual. Again, this is just MY experience. If a buck travels without the advantage of wind here he will walk within range of several tree stands and awaiting hunters before he reaches his destination. Small broken up parcels and several hunters on each parcel ensure this. Now I said I dont see it that often. When I do, it's within this daytime saftey area..or bedding area. I have seen movement with wind at their back within that area.

In some other places that recieve less pressure and perhaps in Stan's case..maybe that buck felt perfectly comfortable moving to his water hole because Stan stayed out of the area and waited until the pefrect wind where he was undetectable. A great tactic by the way and perfectly played out by Stan! Combine the buck feeling little pressure with the heat and time of year..that buck was due to be on his feet and headed towards water. I see this behavior more when I hunted Iowa, Illinois,Illinois, and sometimes in Ohio etc. A woods like that where I hunt would have no less that 15 tree stands in it. And that's not an exaggeration.


Just another example of how extremes in pressure can dictate different deer behavior in my opinion. Any thoughts on this Dan?


The area that buck was living in was low pressured compared to the neighboring properties. That is more than likely why he was living there. Another thing I always consider is how much deer scent an area has. The pond the buck was headed to had does visiting before he showed up. There had been many deer visiting that pond in the preceding weeks. So the area was saturated with deer scent. I believe this made the buck feel safe going to that water hole.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby Ridgerunner7 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:27 pm

Stanley wrote:
Ridgerunner7 wrote:I think it really depends on where you're hunting and the pressure in the area. In Michigan where I hunt, if OUTSIDE of the rut I don't see mature deer travel with the wind at their back that often. During the rut I do when their scent checking does, etc. If the wind isn't in their favor they simply sit tight till dark or stage very close to their bed where you'll have to be very close to get a visual. Again, this is just MY experience. If a buck travels without the advantage of wind here he will walk within range of several tree stands and awaiting hunters before he reaches his destination. Small broken up parcels and several hunters on each parcel ensure this. Now I said I dont see it that often. When I do, it's within this daytime saftey area..or bedding area. I have seen movement with wind at their back within that area.

In some other places that recieve less pressure and perhaps in Stan's case..maybe that buck felt perfectly comfortable moving to his water hole because Stan stayed out of the area and waited until the pefrect wind where he was undetectable. A great tactic by the way and perfectly played out by Stan! Combine the buck feeling little pressure with the heat and time of year..that buck was due to be on his feet and headed towards water. I see this behavior more when I hunted Iowa, Illinois,Illinois, and sometimes in Ohio etc. A woods like that where I hunt would have no less that 15 tree stands in it. And that's not an exaggeration.


Just another example of how extremes in pressure can dictate different deer behavior in my opinion. Any thoughts on this Dan?


The area that buck was living in was low pressured compared to the neighboring properties. That is more than likely why he was living there. Another thing I always consider is how much deer scent an area has. The pond the buck was headed to had does visiting before he showed up. There had been many deer visiting that pond in the preceding weeks. So the area was saturated with deer scent. I believe this made the buck feel safe going to that water hole.

Perfect set up Stan. Nice work on a giant buck!
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:39 pm

The area that buck was living in was low pressured compared to the neighboring properties. That is more than likely why he was living there. Another thing I always consider is how much deer scent an area has. The pond the buck was headed to had does visiting before he showed up. There had been many deer visiting that pond in the preceding weeks. So the area was saturated with deer scent. I believe this made the buck feel safe going to that water hole.

Thats a good point Stan... I have noticed that mature bucks seem to move earlier on properties with higher density's.
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Re: Wind & Bedding

Unread postby dan » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:45 pm

backstraps wrote:
dan wrote:
So a hunter hunting on a ridge has to [glow=red]hunt a just off wind[/glow] in order to take advantage of deer bedding on points. And in this scenario, the deer will always be coming quartering into the wind because thats what your set up for, not because thats the only direction they go...




Dan, this is something I cant really understand... hunting just off wind.

So if I suspected a buck to be bedding on for example the east side of a ridge, also the leeward side.
I understand I wouldnt want to be facing the west side of the ridge where my wind is coming from...as well
as setup directly above him where my scent would fall into the wind tunnel where he may be bedded.

How do I hunt off wind?


Im at work now, so I can't take the time to draw up a topo... But generally the bucks bedding on ridges bed on points. The sides of points generally have draws. The wind usually is not blowing absolutely straight down the point. Getting right up against the draw will have your scent blowing over the valley but the wind from the center of the point would flow right to the bed, Its been a long time since I watched the DVD's but I think that is covered really well in the hill country DVD in the spot where I kill the 14 pointer on the water hole.


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