Dan/Andrea Tactics

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PredatorTC
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Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby PredatorTC » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:38 am

When I think about the way Dan hunts and I think about the way that Andrea hunts, I see many different things. One thing I have been thinking about is how Dan will hunt a buck once and then that bridge is burned for a few weeks until he hunts it again. That second time he may tweak his setup a little or whatever. But now it seems to me as though Andre will hunt one specific buck multiple times in a week or month. Why and how can he do this when Dan is not? What is Andre doing different? I hope this question is clear.


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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby Dor » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:43 am

It is not that cut and dry..

However, hunting public vs. managed private affords the later a lot more leeway.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby PredatorTC » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:48 am

Dor wrote:It is not that cut and dry..

However, hunting public vs. managed private affords the later a lot more leeway.


I agree with you! Im trying to get some deeper thinking and tactics discussed.
Like you said, I think public and private do play a huge role.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby dan » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:56 am

I might "burn a bridge" and not come back for a while, but if I am hunting a specific buck, I am moving to his next most likely spot... Same as Andrae I suppose.
The biggest differences , like Dor mentioned, is Andrae is hunting deer that will take a little more pressure than the ones I hunt, and Andraes bar is set much higher than mine, so there are very few bucks he would shoot, so there is usually only one buck for him on the entire property he hunts. When a certain buck is showing it self on a regular basis he hunts it hard, so would I. But it ain't often mature bucks on public "show themselves". Most of the time, if I see a shooter, its within range. He has bucks like that too though. Pressure, or not, most bucks 5 or older don't wander around much in daylight.
I think one of the biggest differences between us is he likes to scout more during the season, I like to scout more in winter / spring.
Andrae and me used to hunt some of the same farms years ago, before all his fame, and we would each go into the same huge parcel and end up meeting each other under the same tree... So, there are differences in how we get there, but we both seem to end up in the same spot.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby PredatorTC » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:03 pm

dan wrote:I might "burn a bridge" and not come back for a while, but if I am hunting a specific buck, I am moving to his next most likely spot... Same as Andrae I suppose.
The biggest differences , like Dor mentioned, is Andrae is hunting deer that will take a little more pressure than the ones I hunt, and Andraes bar is set much higher than mine, so there are very few bucks he would shoot, so there is usually only one buck for him on the entire property he hunts. When a certain buck is showing it self on a regular basis he hunts it hard, so would I. But it ain't often mature bucks on public "show themselves". Most of the time, if I see a shooter, its within range. He has bucks like that too though. Pressure, or not, most bucks 5 or older don't wander around much in daylight.
I think one of the biggest differences between us is he likes to scout more during the season, I like to scout more in winter / spring.
Andrae and me used to hunt some of the same farms years ago, before all his fame, and we would each go into the same huge parcel and end up meeting each other under the same tree... So, there are differences in how we get there, but we both seem to end up in the same spot.


Interesting, Because I have been so busy this spring, I have not been able to do a lot of scouting so in season scouting is going to be huge for me this year.
Dan, because you scout in spring so much, I know you get right in the bucks bed and look around. With Andrea doing in season scouting does he have to do a little more guess work as to exactly where the bed is?
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby dan » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:11 pm

Like me, Andrae is good at looking at a property, or map and knowing where bedding will likely be. When he does in season scouting he likes to kick the buck out of the bed in a manor so he gets a visual, so he can determine if it meets his standards. Which is probably a major reason why he prefers in-season scouting. So he knows the buck meets his standards.
I am usually ok with any mature buck... But, if there is a monster in the area I think I can kill, I hold out.
Remember that once you know all the bedding areas on a property, it don't change much.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby moondoondude » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:34 pm

dan wrote:Like me, Andrae is good at looking at a property, or map and knowing where bedding will likely be. When he does in season scouting he likes to kick the buck out of the bed in a manor so he gets a visual, so he can determine if it meets his standards. Which is probably a major reason why he prefers in-season scouting. So he knows the buck meets his standards.
I am usually ok with any mature buck... But, if there is a monster in the area I think I can kill, I hold out.
Remember that once you know all the bedding areas on a property, it don't change much.


Dan I don't comment much on your posts because you are pretty spot on and you know your stuff. I got to comment on this though because it is very relative to what I do. I try to approach this question as if I were hunting a new property. If I am hunting a familiar property, I hardly ever "actively" scout (boots to ground, cut tracks, find any sign or look for beds). I know my hunting properties well enough and the deer there that I don't have to do much of it - I know what is there and what they do. I wish I had more property to hunt so this would not be the case. I love the unknown factor of a new property. I come across some properties that i have access to that i check out and they arent what i am looking for. So, if I find a new area with big buck sign I typically approach it in two different ways:

1) hang a camera outside of a secondary trail a buck uses to either enter a MAJOR good source, or a secondary trail off his bed. I leave the primary trail to food and to bed alone and hunt it immediately if i can identify that trail. This is a hands-off, low impact approach.

2) walk the property until I bump the buck off his bed and establish visual contact, then make a quick aggressive move on him (my opinion my best chance of getting him), and then gradually back off and take a more strategic approach. I am extremely buck specific in my hunting in that I almost always single out a buck to to after. This is a more aggressive approach and can really educate a deer.

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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby Stanley » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:44 pm

Great topic. I think it boils down to the old saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby Bwhtr125 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:50 am

dan wrote:he likes to kick the buck out of the bed in a manor so he gets a visual


moondoondude wrote:walk the property until I bump the buck off his bed and establish visual contact


Do mature bucks in your areas actually bed in locations with that much visibility? After viewing many posts about bed hunting tactics on this forum I continue to try to understand this tactic. I have not hunted the midwest, so I am having a hard time picturing this. In my area of NY, mature bucks, and most deer in general will bed in areas so thick that you are lucky to be able to crawl through them. When you sit in a bed you are lucky if you can see 15 to 20 yards, and most mature deer will not leave these areas until after dark. The rely on their nose and ears to alert them of danger. If you do bump the deer, it is highly unlikely that you will lay eyes on him. What further complicates it is that due to limited prime bedding, mature bucks will bed very close to does and smaller bucks all year, not just during the rut, so you never know what you are bumping. The best you can do is find the beds, and make a educated guess based on sign, trail cameras and shining, as to where your target buck is bedding.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby GRFox » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:26 am

Bwhtr125 wrote:
dan wrote:he likes to kick the buck out of the bed in a manor so he gets a visual


moondoondude wrote:walk the property until I bump the buck off his bed and establish visual contact


Do mature bucks in your areas actually bed in locations with that much visibility? After viewing many posts about bed hunting tactics on this forum I continue to try to understand this tactic. I have not hunted the midwest, so I am having a hard time picturing this. In my area of NY, mature bucks, and most deer in general will bed in areas so thick that you are lucky to be able to crawl through them. When you sit in a bed you are lucky if you can see 15 to 20 yards, and most mature deer will not leave these areas until after dark. The rely on their nose and ears to alert them of danger. If you do bump the deer, it is highly unlikely that you will lay eyes on him. What further complicates it is that due to limited prime bedding, mature bucks will bed very close to does and smaller bucks all year, not just during the rut, so you never know what you are bumping. The best you can do is find the beds, and make a educated guess based on sign, trail cameras and shining, as to where your target buck is bedding.


Not sure where you are in NY but that seems pretty spot on for me too. I only know of one buck bed that you would actually be able to see the buck if you jump him out of his bed and like you mentioned buck and doe bedding seem to be very close since there is not a lot of desirable bedding.

I have found sheds of a mature deer in some of the thickest nastiest briar patches imaginable. the deer would have to belly crawl through a small tunnel under the briars to get to an open spot in the middle of the patch.

In all my years of stomping around the woods ive only
blown 1 big buck out of his bed that i could see, and that was while i was still hunting. Other than that i could only assume some of the 100's of deer i have bumped in the thick stuff have been good bucks.

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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby Bwhtr125 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:40 am

GRFox wrote:Not sure where you are in NY but that seems pretty spot on for me too.


I am in Suffolk County, East End of Long Island. Have lived and hunted here my whole life (I am 43). Pressure is very high and quality land is limited, so if you don't aggressively hunt bedding areas you will not be consistent with mature deer. I hunt beds, but not exactly the same as many on here do. I will try to locate and hunt a few good buck beds for opening week (October 1), but after that all bets are off. Most areas will have been intruded upon, mainly by deer drives, within after the first week and most mature deer relocate to thicker cover and go more nocturnal.

What I do is find the thickest, most unhuntable cover I can and use past experience hunting these areas and make an educated guess as to where my target bucks, or any mature buck for that matter, will end up bedding when the pressure is on. Most of these places are overgrown cedar and briar thickets and there are no trees big enough to put a stand in, I hunt mainly off the ground or in small tripods and homemade step ladder stands. I think the average height of my stands is about 6 ft off the ground and you are lucky if you have 25 yards of visibility. I have a few spots that I have consistently shot mature PY deer year after year from the same stands. Funny thing is that pre-season scouting in many of these areas will not show much deer activity, particularly buck activity, but once the season is open things change quickly.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby headgear » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:53 am

Not to get too far off topic but you NY guys are seeing the same stuff I am in MN. Large super thick/nasty bedding area full of all ages of deer. Bucks are the hardest to get to and you likely never see them as they bolt early or hang tight unless you step on them and give you a heart attach.

I think the best thing we can take away from Dan & Andrea is they let the situation dictate the tactics they use and not the other way around. Every bed, surrounding terrain and area pressure is different and we need to be flexible with our plan of attack.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby Bwhtr125 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:01 am

headgear wrote:Not to get too far off topic but you NY guys are seeing the same stuff I am in MN. Large super thick/nasty bedding area full of all ages of deer. Bucks are the hardest to get to and you likely never see them as they bolt early or hang tight unless you step on them and give you a heart attach.


Sounds about right. Seems like we either have super thick areas or open hard woods, and most hunt the more open areas. Many think I am crazy hunting how and where I do, but it pays off in the long run.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby dan » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:21 am

Most of my areas are similar to the ones you guys mentioned. I find it much easier to locate the buck beds, and then make visual of the buck by spotlight, trail cam, tracks, or high rubs. Usually a combination of those. Andrae is hunting more open terrain private, managed, and patrolled areas. However, I have seen him use this tactic in swamp, marsh and small pressured farms.
Sometimes I get a visual by walking into bedding areas, but most often not in the areas I am hunting.
Andrae would be dissapointed if he set up on a deer based on sign telling him it was mature, if the buck ended up only scoring in the 160's... He is looking for the exceptions. I think he needs to make a visual to know if its worth going after. I have seen footage he filmed passing deer that were obviously Boone and Crockett class... He is singling out one deer, thats why the visual I guess.
I do the same, but not as concerned about buck score, and I get my visual from a distance.
He does it my way too, and me a little of his way, but there is certainly differences in our approach.
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Re: Dan/Andrea Tactics

Unread postby moondoondude » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:10 pm

Bwhtr125 wrote:
dan wrote:he likes to kick the buck out of the bed in a manor so he gets a visual


moondoondude wrote:walk the property until I bump the buck off his bed and establish visual contact


Do mature bucks in your areas actually bed in locations with that much visibility? After viewing many posts about bed hunting tactics on this forum I continue to try to understand this tactic. I have not hunted the midwest, so I am having a hard time picturing this. In my area of NY, mature bucks, and most deer in general will bed in areas so thick that you are lucky to be able to crawl through them. When you sit in a bed you are lucky if you can see 15 to 20 yards, and most mature deer will not leave these areas until after dark. The rely on their nose and ears to alert them of danger. If you do bump the deer, it is highly unlikely that you will lay eyes on him. What further complicates it is that due to limited prime bedding, mature bucks will bed very close to does and smaller bucks all year, not just during the rut, so you never know what you are bumping. The best you can do is find the beds, and make a educated guess based on sign, trail cameras and shining, as to where your target buck is bedding.


Not always, but many times yes. I don't really know how I scout - I pretty much walk around and look at things. I spend a lot of time in the woods all through the year. To be honest with you, I laern the most about big bucks and their behaviors by shed hunting. If you keep finding sheds in the same types of places it means that the deer like to hang there. I hate to keep relating hunting styles and deer behaviors to shed hunting but I feel like it makes a lot of sense to me. I find hundreds of antlers each year, off of close to 100 different bucks sometimes. Each time you find that antler it tells you something. WHen you find 40 or 50 of these antlers in the same types of places - it usually tells you where the deer are hanging. Well guess what? Even on very pressured public and private ground the deer hang out in areas where they have high visiblity. If they see you from a way off, they will slip off and find a way out or just hold tight in thick cover. I could go on all day about this but I will give you a couple examples.

I hunt some public ground that has a lot of water surrounding it. By a lot of water I mean the whole thing is covered in water - it's a 2,000 or so thousand acre island. Well a lot of times when I hunt it I go with a group of guys, withour bows, and we do pushes and either try to push the deer along the water way out in front to other guys, hoping they slow down enough for a shot - they don't always but sometimes they do. We have killed some real bombers doing this. Well there are times where you are in a patch of phrag and you can't get the deer to leave it - the phragmite might only be 50 x 50 yards or even smaller - and you can't filter the deer. They will lay so tight that you pretty much step on them - literally - and then they will bust in whichever direction and run like . Preferably, they bump WAY out in front of you and try to slip away slowly and tactically. That's when they get killed. We rely on the deer to try to place themselves and bed tactically somewhere so when they slowly slip away, when they think they're undetected, they are actually slipping right in front of an arrow.

We also realize that many times these deer will swim. There are a couple peninsulas and poitns that we push and there are small bays between other peninsulas that stem out on the island. When we push these peninsulas to the tip, the deer will casually swim to the other tip. As they climb the bank, someone is waiting for them on the other side. Two years ago I was pushing when I heard what sounded like a huge cannonball/belly flop. I turned to see a beautiful buck swimming to the opposite shore. He got out of the water and ran up the cliff/bank, looked back, and kept running. I watched helplessly. The next time in, I did the same push, bumped the deer out of the same patch of phrag, he again jumped in, went to the other bank, but a buddy was waiting at the other side. He missed. Regardless, you can take advantage of deer when they bed repeatedly in the same areas and try to pattern them on what they do once they leave that bed when they are pressured. Just like deer many times do the same thing and take the same route when they leave their bed in the evenings to go eat, they also many times take the same route when they are pressured or pushed from their bed.


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