My home county is absolutely terrible

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JakeJD
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby JakeJD » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:38 am

QDMAMAN wrote:jaked,
I always cringe a bit when the phrase "doe slaughter" is associated with QDM or the QDMA. My experience tells me that people that make this generalization aren't up to speed on what QDM means or what the QDMA promotes. I don't mean that as a slight, and I've purchase plenty of complimentary QDMA memberships to bolster my assertions, so please don't take it personally.
Nebraska is an anomolly compared to other midwest states when it comes to the whitetail. Because the state is so vast with relatively little whitetail deer habitat, it supports a relatively low whitetail population also Nebraska has a very low people population and a relatively young whitetail hunting heritage, as compared to say PA, WI, or my state of MI.
I can support these assertions via the harvest numbers Nebraska reported. Nebraska reported 37,967 bucks in their 2010 harvest with JUST 25% being 1.5 yo bucks (outstanding BTW!) also reported 39,198 antlerless in their harvest for the same year, which is a 1:1 ratio and is equivalent to just 1 deer/sq mi. While Nebraska's antlerless harvest was up 32% from the previos year, it appears to be a move to level populations bases on the 1:1 ratio reported. This indicates to me that NE has reached the point where they feel the whitetail has filled it's niche and now needs to be maintained.
Compare these numbers to Michigan where our landscape is highly fragmented and we bost 650,000 hunters each year that are allowed 2 bucks each. Michigan reported 212,341 bucks in our harvest with a whopping 57% being 1.5 yo bucks. Our antlerless havest was 205,509 and between the 2 catagories we killed 7 deer/sq mi, 7 times as many deer/sq mi as NE.
Michigan continues to have overpopulation issues in the southern half of the mitten yet we contiue to kill more bucks than doe. It's absolute insanity but because our DNR offers vertually unlimited antlerless tags in this region, it's easy to point the finger at hunters and claim we aren't getting the job done. Our stats show that less than half of 1% of hunters in Michigan that kill one doe, kill more than 3 so offering limitless antlerless tags in a strawman and the problem is compounded by our liberal buck regs. The average hunter in Michigan is contenet to shoot 1 deer and as long as we can kill 2 bucks, there's little reason to target the neccessary antlerless to reduce the herd.
While Nebraska may not have high deer numbers, your DNR is doing a great job, IMO, of managing the ones you have and I hope to one day take advantage of that fact with a trip to your beautiful state!


You hit the nail on the head. Nebraska is vast and open for the most part. I don't think most people who have never traveled through NE realize how much my state consists of open prarie / sea of corn / beans.

I do not know much about QDM, I was fairly open with that from the beginning. I did not mean to assert that "doe slaughter" was QDM. I do know that we are killing a ton of does in the state, and I also know that the state has no idea how many does or bucks are actually killed because we recently switched to phone / internet check-in. Maybe only 25% of bucks killed are 1.5 y/o, but I would venture that around 90-95% of bucks killed are not older than 2.5 y/o.

I think the GPC is taking steps in the right direction to reduce the overall numbers of deer and try to balance the herd, but I also think the GPC will be slow to act after the state has reached the point that the "doe slaughter" is no longer necessary. I have very little faith in the NGPC after watching tons of mis-steps and mismanagement.

The GPC raises and stocks bullheads. Bullheads! Those little SOB's need no help in getting introduced to and taking over small fisheries. Does anyone come to NE to pheasant anymore? What are Kansas and SD doing right with regards to upland hunting? IMO, the NGPC is filled with too many high dollar PhD pinheads who don't know a damned thing that they don't read in a textbook.

My bigggest gripe is that the state is currently in the process of clearing huge amounts of mature trees (cedars, cottonwoods, brush, everything) on wildlife management areas across the state. Why? I called the local office following a massive tree clearing spot at one of my large public spots and I was informed that the head guys in Lincoln have deemed the WMA properties as upland areas. I forget the terminology that was used, but since the land is classified as this specific ecosystem (one that hasn't existed in the state since the arrival of white men and agriculture) it requires the removal of all trees and brush. What end does this serve? Keep in mind that this public spot is about the only whitetail habitat in the area for a 30 mile swath of bean and corns between the Platte / Republican Rivers.


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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby QDMAMAN » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:33 am

[quote="jakedeaverI do not know much about QDM, I was fairly open with that from the beginning. I did not mean to assert that "doe slaughter" was QDM. I do know that we are killing a ton of does in the state, and I also know that the state has no idea how many does or bucks are actually killed because we recently switched to phone / internet check-in. Maybe only 25% of bucks killed are 1.5 y/o, but I would venture that around 90-95% of bucks killed are not older than 2.5 y/o.[/quote]


There isn't a single state where whitetails roam that knows exactly how many deer are within their boundaries. Even states that have mandatory physical check, figure in around 30% noncompliance. It's less important to know exact numbers than it is to pay attention to trends in the harvest.

While Nebraska didn't report the percentage of 2.5 and older bucks in their harvest, we do know that they reported 25% being 1.5 yo bucks. The only state in the midwest region that reported a lower percentage was Kansas at 9% (how cool is that? :dance: ).
The midwest average broke down this wasy:
38% 1.5 yo
34% 2.5 yo
28% 3.5 yo
With NE having a lower than average percentage of 1.5 yo bucks reported in their harvest (25%), it's reasonable to assume that they had a higher than average percentage of 3.5 and older bucks in their harvest, of course this is an assumption.

jaked, with all things wildlife, habitat is the key. If NE isn't managing habitat for whitetails by removing woodlands and restoring them to prairie, whitetail numbers will, by default, be limited.
If you ever get a chance to hunt east of the river you'll get an entirely different perspective. While it's depressing, I'm sure, to see your only accessible whitetail habitat removed, you should know that NE has a lot going for it when it comes to the whitetails you DO have.

FWIW, I would highly recomend purchasing a 1 year membership to the QDMA for $30.00 to give it a go. I'm confident that you'll be pleased with the decision and that the information contained in the Quality Whitetail magazine alone, will be worth the money. http://www.qdma.com/join

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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby rizzo999 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:21 pm

First post here!

Managing your herd to as close to a 1:1 ratio of bucks to does is also rather important as noted in one of the many pages in this series of posts. Example: I have been hunting in the CWD zones in WI since before they were CWD zones. A few years into the WI DNR's management of CWD they incorporated EAB (earn-a-buck) in these DMU (deer managment units). Although the practice of EAB was received with anger throughout most of WI when it was introduced to some of the non-CWD units to reduce deer densities, the quality of the bucks in the 2 counties that I hunt have drastically improved in the past 10 years.

10 years ago seeing a 150" buck in the areas I hunt was a rarity. Now I have had to pass many 140, 150 and even a couple 160"+ bucks (estimates by me of course no tape measure taken to those deer) to earn that buck by taking a doe or button buck if you so desire. While the rest of the state was complaining to no end about EAB, we have quietly praised the DNR enforcing the EAB rules!! Our areas were historically "brown-its-down" mentality by the landowners kids and the neighboring hunters. They now see the importance of simple harvest management in the quality of bucks in the areas.

$30 for a one-year membership to QDMA sounds rather reasonable. Thanks for listing that offer.

Mike
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby dan » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:32 am

Welcome to the BEAST Mike... 8-)
While EAB may have helped in some areas, it certainly hurt in others. We too saw a spike in large bucks getting shot and seen a couple years into EAB. However, those bucks were always here, but were know getting seen and shot that we had less does. After more years of limitless EAB in my area you have a much harder time shooting a doe than a buck. Last season I saw two or 3 does the entire season on public land ( I hunt about 5 days a week ) I saw about 10 or 15 bucks...
Go back to 2000, and I was seeing 2 or 3 does a day, and passing P&Y weekly. Now I would be glad to shoot any P&Y class animal in this ghost town. EAB might have worked where you at, but when you consider 1000 people hunting the same public 3000 acre chunk of land, it can't afford to have 1000 or more does get shot off it... While down the street the 3000 acre private land that has a family of 8 people hunting it is not taking enough does. EAB cannot work in my opinion on every property, or in every area.
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby Uncle Lou » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:47 am

Saw how much activity so I finally checked this thread Not what I was expecting based on the title but interesting read, with some interesting points.

I highly doubt the deer in any state will ever be managed to everyones delight. I appreciate the diversity of not only what Michigan has to offer, but the diversity of what other states have to offer.

I like to look at and think about planning a hunt in other states for whitetail. If for example, MI decided it wants to be as good as KS, or IL, or someother great whitetail mecca, I would have less interest in going there, when they are bringing it to me.

I still think people from great Whitetail hunting states or areas, would do themselves a favor and jump in the truck and try hunting a PA, NY, or MI for a different experience.
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby blackwolf » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:17 am

Go back to 2000, and I was seeing 2 or 3 does a day, and passing P&Y weekly. Now I would be glad to shoot any P&Y class animal in this ghost town. EAB might have worked where you at, but when you consider 1000 people hunting the same public 3000 acre chunk of land, it can't afford to have 1000 or more does get shot off it... While down the street the 3000 acre private land that has a family of 8 people hunting it is not taking enough does. EAB cannot work in my opinion on every property, or in every area.


Exactly!!!
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby gjs4 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:49 am

NY just dealt the death punches-
ml doe season in sept
crossbows during archery (oct 1- ~nov 15)
youth gun either sex (oct 6-8)
gun (~nov15- ~dec 22)

Anyone want to move here...btw the highest hunter denisty in the nation in this region

I bought a lifetime license..just going to make the most of it as the car insurance companies help boost the license sales greed of our DEC
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby jlh42581 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:21 am

The thing that would worry me the most is the rut rifle season combined with the overall length of it. WOW
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby gjs4 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:21 am

sadly J- that is the only old thing listed up there- crossbows, oct 1, doe ml, youth season are all the new parts...

60% of the states entire deer take is during opening week (yes 7 days) of the southern zone gun season!!! NY is broke into 9 regions, the region i hunt has 5 counties; erie (with buffalo) being the largest and most densely populated. Erie has more hunters in it than any 3 other counties combined and if you take the least pressured 7 counties and tally them the total is less than erie (alone)....and erie has the whole buffalo region which is no hunting. The interesting twist is the western third of the state (including buffalo) is where 80% of the mature bucks come from..it is also where 110" or larger get mounted.

The big killer here is there is so little enforecement...these youth seasons (youth turkey is this weekend) is basically when guys start hunting...with or without kids..sad go boys

But from what i have seen of PA and MI...there are other messes out there too
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby rochester coops » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:42 pm

Gotta love the youth seasons. What is that supposed to mean, the state admits its too dangerous out there for innocent young ones during the regular season, so we'll break them in (give them a better experience) before the chaos begins? A chance to see a buck in case they can't get out opening day, when most will die? Maybe 4 weeks isn't enough time to get youth involved in the sport of run and gun trespassing season we all love.

I don't plan on hunting with a gun at all next yr. I am hoping to visit some archery only areas, but during my scouting found shotgun shells, so maybe there goes that plan. But if you think about it, why should I have expected no guns in an archery only area? I mean, these guys don't respect posted signs so nothing is off limits.
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby rochester coops » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:56 pm

gjs4, can we bow hunt during the youth gun hunt?

Another thing about the youth of our sport. The last couple yrs have got me thinking, and I don't think I would ever bring my kids gun hunting with me. Its just too predictably unpredictable. There are too many people out there and most shouldn't ever touch a gun, cause they don't know what they are doing. And then I was convicted that if its too dangerous for my kids, why should their daddy be risking everything for a deer doing something he doesn't really enjoy anymore due to all the disrespect for deer and other hunters out there? its not a sport or a past-time when its anxiety over who just took that shoot in our woods 100 yds from me, and where did that slug come from that wizzed over my head.
So if I won't bring them to this circus, why start them out in a youth season?
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby gjs4 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:22 am

When they moved the monday gun opener to the preceeding saturday (aka stealing the last weekend of archery) the enrollment difference was less than 1%...MY humble opinion is the more days of gun hunting they add the more dollars the insurance company lobbyists give them

Yes- we can bowhunt that weekend. They said it is public misconception that deer patterns will be changed. They also said that nearly 50% of the deer harvested were 2.5 or older...which is beyond me on asking you how many pts your buck had a relating an age to that.

I am heading toward bow only and think that is great youre already there RC. I need to man up.

Some of the new changes are listed in the latest New York Outdoor News which appears to be become the vector of all things DEC propaganda..Piatt goes far beyond being an editor and take the roll of a little kid that throws rocks at you after you turn around

sad go
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby rochester coops » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:37 am

gjs4 wrote:When they moved the monday gun opener to the preceeding saturday (aka stealing the last weekend of archery) the enrollment difference was less than 1%...MY humble opinion is the more days of gun hunting they add the more dollars the insurance company lobbyists give them

Yes- we can bowhunt that weekend. They said it is public misconception that deer patterns will be changed. They also said that nearly 50% of the deer harvested were 2.5 or older...which is beyond me on asking you how many pts your buck had a relating an age to that.




That would be impressive since supposedly the dec aged this 182 gross buck at 2 1/2.
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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby QDMAMAN » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 am

gjs4 wrote: They also said that nearly 50% of the deer harvested were 2.5 or older...which is beyond me on asking you how many pts your buck had a relating an age to that.



Bucks, or both sexes?
According to the information NY provided to the QDMA for the 2012 Whitetail Report, they reported that 55% of the buck harvest was 1.5 yo bucks. Sad indeed.:(
http://www.qdma.com/corporate/whitetail-report

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Re: My home county is absolutely terrible

Unread postby headgear » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:47 am

Not sure when all of your rifle seasons open up but the MN rifle season opens the Saturday closest to Nov 6th. Southern 2/3rds of the state is 9 days, northern 1/3 is 16 days. It completely destroys our rut and a great majority of the young bucks. It just plain sucks. :cry:


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