Predator Scent?

[Mike]

From what I have read it doesn't seem to be the case with human urine, so I think it ok to pee wherever, just don't put bobcat or coyote urine around your area.

[JakeJD]

From what I have read it doesn't seem to be the case with human urine, so I think it ok to pee wherever, just don't put bobcat or coyote urine around your area.

So human urine does not contain the biogenic amine like bobcat urine? If not, what is the differentiating odor that humans give off (via their breath, urine, gas through skin, etc.) that identify us as predators (carnivores)?

[JakeJD]

Great Info Mike!! I've always been on the fence with peeing In scrapes or just peeing In the woods period. I don't do It much at all. Are they saying animals can tell the difference In predator pee over non predator pee? Sounds as though their saying that.

I always try to keep my urine out of the woods, but that is not possible most of the time for me. FWIW, I have peed out of my treestand and had does browsing around the bottom of my tree in the urine not 5 minutes after I finished.

I haven't ever had a negative reaction from deer to my urine that I have viewed, maybe I am spooking deer that I never see or causing deer not to revisit an area though.

[dan]

I think they can smell meat eater pee.... I can smell the differance. Eat a lot of meat and your urine stinks like a coyotes. I do think urine breaks down fast though, and quickly becomes amonia like. I don't think predator urine spooks them as much as the smell of an actual predator being up wind.

[Mike]

We have it, just not in the concentration found in those animals urine. I don't think there is a definite answer to your question but my guess would be another biogenic amine or blend of them probably.

I agree with Dan that diet should influence this in people.

From what I have read it doesn't seem to be the case with human urine, so I think it ok to pee wherever, just don't put bobcat or coyote urine around your area.

So human urine does not contain the biogenic amine like bobcat urine? If not, what is the differentiating odor that humans give off (via their breath, urine, gas through skin, etc.) that identify us as predators (carnivores)?

[Stanley]

Success is sometimes the difference in just one little detail. You can control not leaving any human pee around your stand. Why would you take the chance and not control what you can? The buck just came from an area where a hunter peed out of his stand, he smelled the hunter and smelled the pee, you do the math.

[Schultzy]

Success is sometimes the difference in just one little detail. You can control not leaving any human pee around your stand. Why would you take the chance and not control what you can? The buck just came from an area where a hunter peed out of his stand, he smelled the hunter and smelled the pee, you do the math.

This question "to pee or not to pee" gets asked allot on hunting forums. I usually answer no as I don't do It very much. It seems other hunters tend to think your nuts when you say you think there's a difference between human and deer. I always get told there's no difference. I've never believed that there Isn't a difference and will continue to not believe It. Dan hit the nail on the head though. Urine breaks down quick thus I can see It not making a difference then when this happens. Fresh stuff on the other hand I think can make a difference with an older/on the ball deer. Just my opinion though.

Great discussion here!!

[jlh42581]

i dont know about you guys but my pee smells nothing like bottled deer pee. dont know if its bacteria related or the fact I dont have tarsals but its something that I dont smell like.

[Bucky]

I pee from stands all the time... I have had deer in the same sit come in and smell it, lick it off leaves etc and they don't spook. Human urine does not spook deer...

I have pissed in scrapes then hung a cam on it = no neg effect, still get bucks of all ages working and smelling the scrape

I have pictures of coyotes urinating in scrapes, bucks cont to use and don't see to freak out when they come in and smell it?

[dan]

bump

[Jackson Marsh]

Here's some excepts from a very interesting book, Animals in Translation. Lot of good info on animal behavior and how they sense, react, think etc.

"When it comes to picking up a predator's scent, the close-up system lets a rat smell a cat that's sitting no more than a foot or two away. The distant system lets rats smell a cat way off in the distance.
So naturally everyone assumed that rats and any animal who's vulnerable to being attacked and eaten would use their distant smell system to stay out of danger. It just stood to reason that if you're a rat and you don't react to a cat until you're face-to-face with it, it's too late. You're lunch.
But it turns out that's not the way things work at all. The distant system isn't connected to fear centers in the rat's brain, and the smell of a predator in the distance does not motivate a rat to flee. The distant smell system doesn't affect a rat emotionally or behaviorally at all.
It's the close-up system that's connected to the fear centers in the rat's brain, and it's the close-up system that activates survival behaviors like freezing in place or fleeing. It's the close-up system that keeps rats alive. We know this from experiments comparing rats whose close-up system has been disconnected from the rest of the brain to rats whose long-distance system has been disconnected. (This is done by snipping the fibers connecting the two inside the brain.) Only rats who have an intact close-up smell system act scared when they smell a predator. The instant they smell cat they freeze and start dropping more pellets of poop, classic signs of fear. The rats whose brains are getting input only from long-distance smell don't react at all. They feel nothing emotionally.
Researchers were stunned to get this result. It was completely counterintuitive, because why would nature want a rat to wait to get scared until he's standing face-to-face with a cat?
The answer is nature wouldn't want that, and that's not what nature did. What nature did by linking close-up smell to fear was to give the rat the ability to predict the future.
Here's how it works. In the wild, rats get scared when they wander into a place where a predator has been in the past. There's no cat there now (or let's hope not), but there's plenty of cat smell, and the rat is right on top of it when his close-smell system picks up the scent. Since most predators are territorial, where a cat has been in the past is an excellent indication of where it's going to be in the future. So the rat's close-up "scary smell" system lets it predict where any cats in the area are going to be and then get out of the way before they get there. It's an early warning system. Animal emotions help animals stay out of trouble in the first place, which is a very good idea if you're a rat. It's probably a good idea if you're a dog or a cat, too. Cats might want to stay away from major dog spots, and dogs who've lost fights might want to stay away from spots the victor dog is going to be visiting soon.
It seems like Mother Nature thinks an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And emotions are essential to prevention. A healthy fear system keeps animals, and people, alive by allowing them to predict the future.
When you think about emotions as a prediction system, it stands to reason that close-up smell would be wired to fear. But it's still not obvious why nature would wire up a rat's brain so that it doesn't feel fear when it smells a real live cat off in the distance. Shouldn't a rat who knows there's a cat in the detectable distance be motivated to put even more distance between itself and death-by-cat?
I don't think so. Fear is such an overwhelming emotion for an animal that evolution probably selected for brain systems that keep it under control."

Very interesting article Mike, thanks for posting. Definitely relates to deer avoiding set stand sights that are over hunted. Interesting that the mice/rats had a close/distance hard wired response to danger.........I think we've all experienced that while hunting.

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[magicman54494]

I watched a coyote cross a swamp and then a real dandy 8 pointer 1 hour later on the same trail so go figure

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[Uncle Lou]

Ever hear of people going vegan before and during hunting season as part of their scent routine? Kind of extreme to me, but I suppose there is some merit to it. But a little ironic to stop eating meat to go chase meat. I am there to drag meat home.