Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
  • Advertisement

HB Store


dan
Site Owner
Posts: 41588
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:11 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HuntingBeast/?ref=bookmarks
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby dan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:36 am

As much as you need to pick your time wisely, you also have to pick your location wisely. If you are that blind squirrel under the bountiful tree, do you need to be a rocket scientist to use your time and location wisely?

Depends on what your hunting for... You may be struggling to kill a 140 or 150 class buck on heavy pressure public... But it ain't a lot different than setting your sights on booners only on private managed...
You need skill to hunt the best bucks in your area regardless of the area.


dan
Site Owner
Posts: 41588
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:11 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HuntingBeast/?ref=bookmarks
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby dan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:39 am

We are trying to assign absolutes to a field that is amply supplied with a mulitude of changing variables-variables which are beyond anyone's control. If we are going to make comparisons, it would be easier to compare apples to oranges.

I do not believe anybody here is trying to assign absolutes to deer hunting... Most of us hunt based on odds... So we are trying to determine what methods or tactics work the best for what we are targeting "most" of the time.
JV NC
500 Club
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:25 am
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby JV NC » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:46 am

You need skill to hunt the best bucks in your area regardless of the area.


For the most part, I agree with this. But, it's not an absolute.

No one is "wrong", here. I could show you a landowner in Iowa whose teenage son hunts 3-5X year....and shoots a 140+" deer EVERY YEAR. I refuse to believe that's attributable to skill. Watch just about any episode of the bucks of tecomate. Ditto.

Where I live, the people kiling the best bucks (on an annual basis) have a clue. Conceded.

Hey Dan....I watched 90% of hill country, yesterday. I have questions! :D (very good, BTW)
Lateral Bowhunter
dan
Site Owner
Posts: 41588
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:11 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HuntingBeast/?ref=bookmarks
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby dan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:53 am

JV NC wrote:
You need skill to hunt the best bucks in your area regardless of the area.


For the most part, I agree with this. But, it's not an absolute.

No one is "wrong", here. I could show you a landowner in Iowa whose teenage son hunts 3-5X year....and shoots a 140+" deer EVERY YEAR. I refuse to believe that's attributable to skill. Watch just about any episode of the bucks of tecomate. Ditto.

Where I live, the people kiling the best bucks (on an annual basis) have a clue. Conceded.

Hey Dan....I watched 90% of hill country, yesterday. I have questions! :D (very good, BTW)


Right back at you.... ;)
The teenage kid in Iowa is not shooting the biggest buck on the farm. There are lots of 140's running around... When he starts shooting 190 and 200 inch bucks on a regular basis you will have a point.
But for now thats not a fair comparison because YOU are hunting an area where the 140 might be the biggest buck in the county. You have to compare the top few bucks to the top few bucks.

I hope you enjoyed the DVD... 8-)
User avatar
iamyourhuckleberry
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Erie, Colorado
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby iamyourhuckleberry » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:01 am

You need skill to hunt the best bucks in your area regardless of the area.


Or a lot of dumb luck....Like Jeff said, "Not an absolute"

we are [glow=red]trying[/glow] to determine what methods or tactics work the best for what we are targeting "most" of the time.


Therefore....guessing or guestimating :pray: :pray: :pray:

Should this be confused with skill?

Again, there is so much grey area (is it correct to say, A full spectrum of gray?) . It will be impossible to get an absolute answer.

And I agree, there is no wrong answer here. That's why I say it's best to merely have fun.
"No one had ever asked what it feels like to be me. Once I told the truth about that, I felt free. I got to thinking about all the people I know, and the things I’ve seen and done. I can start flying now."-unknown
JV NC
500 Club
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:25 am
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby JV NC » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:03 am

Right back at you....
The teenage kid in Iowa is not shooting the biggest buck on the farm.


Oh No, no, no......I hope I didn't imply that. I didn't mean to.

Consistently killing the top tier bucks in one's hunting area is ABSOLUTELY (yes, I used an absolute!) attributable to hunter skill. No question in my mind. Killing "A" buck (even a nice one)....may or may not be.

The DVD is good. I very much liked how it was done. PM? Or...another thread? (Questions)
Lateral Bowhunter
dan
Site Owner
Posts: 41588
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:11 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HuntingBeast/?ref=bookmarks
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby dan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:10 am

Or a lot of dumb luck....Like Jeff said, "Not an absolute"

Dumb luck happens once or twice... Skill puts bucks down consistently.


Therefore....guessing or guestimating :pray: :pray: :pray:

Should this be confused with skill?

Again, there is so much grey area (is it correct to say, A full spectrum of gray?) . It will be impossible to get an absolute answer.


There is a big difference between "guessing" and making a calculated move based on learned traits and observations. There is no absolute, however, there is things bucks do "most of the time" that make what you call guessing "educated guesses"
If your insinuating that there is absolutely "no skill" involved in hunting.... I am the luckiest guy in my county. Why is it some people, like the ones that sit over the public land food plots, hunt more than me and never even see a deer all year? They unlucky? Maybe, just maybe, they are using tactics that don't work well hunting here.... Or, lack of skill...
dan
Site Owner
Posts: 41588
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:11 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HuntingBeast/?ref=bookmarks
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby dan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:13 am

The DVD is good. I very much liked how it was done. PM? Or...another thread? (Questions)

If you have questions that are not "personal" I would rather you posted them for everybody to see....
User avatar
iamyourhuckleberry
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:04 pm
Location: Erie, Colorado
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby iamyourhuckleberry » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:37 am

Dan,

I am not saying there isn't skill in hunting. It takes skill to guess, based on education, for successful outcomes to happen more often than not. I will conced this point as well.

I'd say "absolute" skill if a hunter could provide a successful outcome 100% of the time everytime he took to the field. I have never seen/found such a hunter. Have you?

I have killed plenty of top tier deer. I atrribute a part of my success to an innate abilty to be in the right spot at the right time-it's an extra sensory perception thing, or the Lord's help-not really sure which. I recognize some things conscientiously and other things subconscientiously. This process works on small deer too...and mtn goats, elk, bighorn. The latter are a lot easier to hunt. You do not have to guess as much as to where they'll be. Bear are a son-of- a-gun to figure out, but I know there's none in Africa.
"No one had ever asked what it feels like to be me. Once I told the truth about that, I felt free. I got to thinking about all the people I know, and the things I’ve seen and done. I can start flying now."-unknown
User avatar
Buckfever
500 Club
Posts: 1029
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:19 pm
Location: NE, IL
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Buckfever » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:23 am

dan wrote:
We are trying to assign absolutes to a field that is amply supplied with a mulitude of changing variables-variables which are beyond anyone's control. If we are going to make comparisons, it would be easier to compare apples to oranges.

I do not believe anybody here is trying to assign absolutes to deer hunting... Most of us hunt based on odds... So we are trying to determine what methods or tactics work the best for what we are targeting "most" of the time.


Yeah I think that's exactly right. Before when I hunted, sort of private public land, undeeded easement properties, most of my success came in October, but then I had a lot of time to hunt.

Now on the public, I'm using the same tactics, but the mature deer only move during legal in the last 90 minutes of legal, during the rut. The biologist there did a study on 18 years of data, and 90% of the P&Y deer were taken in the 2 weeks immediately prior to the gun season in November, in the last hour of legal.

For me things have changed in my work situation and I can't take much time from work so I focus my effort on the 13 afternoons in November, prior to lockdown.

There's no question that when I hunted 60-70 sits a season, I had buck encouters all year, suprisingly quite a few late season, when I did't have a buck tag. But I don't feel that I'm that handicapped hunting this little, I have Pope shot opportunities every year and this is hunting highly pressured public land. If you've done your homework and have 4-5 good sets and wait for the right time and just hunt each set 2-3 times a season. Man that is some good hunting there.


Although I am pretty proficient at killing because I'm pretty cold blooded at the moment of truth, I am not any particularly talented hunter. I had to learn what the deal was on hunting these animals, I didn't see anything for bucks initially and slowly that evolved to reading sign and seeing bucks and identifying bedding, differentitaing mature buck sign, changing the focus of the effort and then I found myself seeing mostly bucks and then more mature bucks. It's not being boastful when we say it's skill. When we say skill we mean the learnings that we recognize increase our odds at shot opportunities at mature deer.

Those of us who have ground out this journey, know luck has little to do with it, we stack the odds. If I hunt 60-70 times a year compared to the 13 hunts I do know, maybe it increases my odds 15-20% max. It's not the time it's not luck, it's the skill to stack the odds.
Last edited by dan on Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: changed for foul language
dan
Site Owner
Posts: 41588
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:11 am
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HuntingBeast/?ref=bookmarks
Location: S.E. Wisconsin
Contact:
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby dan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:58 am

I took my truck to the local auto repair shop because it was sputtering and popping.... I told my wife about it. She had no idea what the problem could be ( No skill )
I however, thought it was either gas flow, or ignition (some skill )
The guy at the garage looked at it and said, "its definitely ignition" but it could be a multitude of different things within that window... Is that "guessing" or skill? or luck?

There was no absolute... He is a "SKILLED" Mechanic. Yet he has to do some tests to find out "exactly" whats wrong... My skill would not have gotten me that far that fast...

Its no different than me looking at a woods and saying, the buck is likely bedded in one of 8 spots, and then hunting each 8 spots until I shoot him.... Someone else would still be staring at the woods saying it might be the fuel pump?
User avatar
Stanley
Honorary Moderator
Posts: 18734
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:18 am
Facebook: None
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Stanley » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:24 am

iamyourhuckleberry wrote:I agree Dan,

As much as you need to pick your time wisely, you also have to pick your location wisely. If you are that blind squirrel under the bountiful tree, do you need to be a rocket scientist to use your time and location wisely?

We are trying to assign absolutes to a field that is amply supplied with a mulitude of changing variables-variables which are beyond anyone's control. If we are going to make comparisons, it would be easier to compare apples to oranges.


Would this be skill or luck? If you sit under an Elm tree waiting for a squirrel to knock down an acorn. You could be in for a long wait. Now, you see that squirrel in a white oak knocking acorns to the ground. Should I sit under the Elm tree or under the white oak in search of the whitetail buck. All hunting involves luck, being able to improve the chances of that luck is what takes skill. Reducing wasted time takes skill not luck. The more you know the less time you need.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
User avatar
Stanley
Honorary Moderator
Posts: 18734
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:18 am
Facebook: None
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Stanley » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:35 am

iamyourhuckleberry wrote:Dan,

I am not saying there isn't skill in hunting. It takes skill to guess, based on education, for successful outcomes to happen more often than not. I will conced this point as well.

I'd say "absolute" skill if a hunter could provide a successful outcome 100% of the time everytime he took to the field. I have never seen/found such a hunter. Have you?

I have killed plenty of top tier deer. I atrribute a part of my success to an innate abilty to be in the right spot at the right time-it's an extra sensory perception thing, or the Lord's help-not really sure which. I recognize some things conscientiously and other things subconscientiously. This process works on small deer too...and mtn goats, elk, bighorn. The latter are a lot easier to hunt. You do not have to guess as much as to where they'll be. Bear are a son-of- a-gun to figure out, but I know there's none in Africa.

Are bears easier to figure out in Canada or Africa? Skill eliminating wasted time tells you.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
User avatar
moondoondude
500 Club
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:16 pm
Location: Southern Maryland
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby moondoondude » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:12 pm

I would say that the advantages of any hunter over any other hunter depends on skill and personal characteristics. This is assuming that everything else is equal - same ground, same quality of herd, same number of mature bucks around etc. Luck isn't an advantage. By definition, I think luck is completely random. I will admit that a lot of my success is attributed not to my skill but to my persistence. I don't slack off and I don't give up - I don't consider that skill either. I wish I had more skill and I wouldn't have to be so persistent.
User avatar
Zap
Posts: 10056
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:57 pm
Location: OK, I am in Kansas.....
Status: Offline

Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Zap » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:51 pm

The fellow that hunts an awful lot in the wrong spot will no do as well as the fellow who hunts the right spot once.

The fellow who hunts the right spot once at random will not do as good as the fellow who hunts the right spot once at the right time.

Personally I would rather be good than lucky.
"Forged in fire lit long ago. Stand next to me and you will never stand alone".


  • Advertisement

Return to “Deer Hunting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Southern Buck, Spysar and 89 guests