Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

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headgear
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby headgear » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:11 am

iamyourhuckleberry wrote:Why compare yourself to others? And actually, what should we compare, antlers? In many cases, I have found those without antlers more challenging than those with antlers-a cunning old doe, for example. Why not just hunt for the pleasure it provides? Killing a spike in many locations is as difficult as killing P&Y bucks in others. With that being said, a person can certainly assess the quality in an area, and then establish the bar for himself/herself for that area. I ok with that. "Success", more than not, is a matter of "time". You cannot get-r-done from the couch!


Basically we can't compare ourselves with others outside of our own areas, far to many variables and skill levels involved. Why did I compare myself with others in my area? Because of the thread title of course.

I'm also not sure about this whole time argument being the key ingreedient to success, sure it is important and I wish I had more of it but then would anyone with unlimited time be a great hunter? When I was a kid I had all the time in the world but didnt have much success, as I got older and more experienced I have far less time but have far more success. We all face obsticals has hunters, we just have to choose if and how we can overcome them to reach out goals.


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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Scot » Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:11 am

Interesting thread. I agree with Will in the regard that our enjoyment should be the neasurement of our success. Which begs the question why do you do it? Hunt or hunt the particular way that you do with the standards that you have. Obviously these things are very personal and individualized.
I personally enjoy all aspects of it and it is my goal to consistently shoot the top end bucks that the area's I hunt have to offer. But the moment in becomes work and I don't find enjoyment in the entire experience, I am done! My primary focus is on giving my hunting efforts my all and constsntly learning and honing my abilities.
I don't think that is healthy or accurate to compare our success levels with hunters from other area's of the country whose circumstances are so often completely different than our own.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Buckfever » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:38 am

My concern has to do with what hunting has become. A lot of hunting has become about getting one, not about a hunt well done. When we are of the mind that skill plays a small part, at that point it becomes a money game. Who can afford to get on the best property. That direction IMO does not perserve our hunting heritage, rather it leads us down a path as it has become in many other places, where hunting becomes a rich mans sport.

It's a big part of why I choose to hunt public land exclusively. That and for bragging rights.

I've hunted both types of ground, the difference in skill level that is required for success, is vastly different. But the skills can be acquired. And that's the biggest problem. When we think that skills have little to do with it. Then there is little motivation to acquire the skills.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby dan » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:50 am

Buckfever wrote:My concern has to do with what hunting has become. A lot of hunting has become about getting one, not about a hunt well done. When we are of the mind that skill plays a small part, at that point it becomes a money game. Who can afford to get on the best property. That direction IMO does not perserve our hunting heritage, rather it leads us down a path as it has become in many other places, where hunting becomes a rich mans sport.

It's a big part of why I choose to hunt public land exclusively. That and for bragging rights.

I've hunted both types of ground, the difference in skill level that is required for success, is vastly different. But the skills can be acquired. And that's the biggest problem. When we think that skills have little to do with it. Then there is little motivation to acquire the skills.


Skill is needed on all property's regardless of management plan or size... Hunt a large managed piece and a 3 y/o buck might seem easy even though on your public its tough. However, step up to shooting 5 year olds consistently on managed land and just sitting funnels and food plots likely won't cut it...
So basically, you up your game on managed land, but skill is still required for consistent success.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Buckfever » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:13 am

dan wrote:
Buckfever wrote:My concern has to do with what hunting has become. A lot of hunting has become about getting one, not about a hunt well done. When we are of the mind that skill plays a small part, at that point it becomes a money game. Who can afford to get on the best property. That direction IMO does not perserve our hunting heritage, rather it leads us down a path as it has become in many other places, where hunting becomes a rich mans sport.

It's a big part of why I choose to hunt public land exclusively. That and for bragging rights.

I've hunted both types of ground, the difference in skill level that is required for success, is vastly different. But the skills can be acquired. And that's the biggest problem. When we think that skills have little to do with it. Then there is little motivation to acquire the skills.


Skill is needed on all property's regardless of management plan or size... Hunt a large managed piece and a 3 y/o buck might seem easy even though on your public its tough. However, step up to shooting 5 year olds consistently on managed land and just sitting funnels and food plots likely won't cut it...
So basically, you up your game on managed land, but skill is still required for consistent success.


No argument from me. But again, the difference is skill, not luck.

Although a 5.5 year old on highly pressured public......that's my bias.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby iamyourhuckleberry » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:06 am

Magic, in a thread somewhere, stated “even a blind squirrel can find an acorn.” Ok...

“A skill is the learned capacity to carry out pre-determined results often with the minimum outlay of time, energy, or both.”

By definition, even a searching blind squirrel, given time and location, has skill-providing he often finds acorns. If he camps under a bountiful tree, he becomes an acorn guru and his blindness disappears...

So then, we have the question at hand, which is essentially: if the tree were to be removed from the squirrel or the squirrel were to be removed from the tree, would the squirrel have the same results finding acorns? How much would be luck and how much would be skill?

Some would say:

If the squirrel never finds another acorn during his remaining life time, then his skill really had its basis in luck.
If the squirrel finds one acorn during his remaining life time, then it was 90% luck and 10% skill.
If the squirrel finds two acorns during his remaining life time, then it was 80% luck and 20 % skill...
If a squirrel finds an acorn every year during his remaining life time, then it is 100% skill. Maybe he should start looking for much bigger walnuts, or perhaps tie a hand behind his back.
If he were to find an acorn in Alaska, he’s amazingly phenomenal!

In my opinion, it is the things we think we know which keeps us from finding the things we should know. The real question should have been, “is the squirrel having fun right were he is?” If so, should anything else matter?

If you/we are having fun, should anything else matter? Happiness tends to rub off. Would anyone argue? Happy people tend to share. Sharing opens doors... people trust, communities grow, and symbiotic relationships develop.

Right now, the public sees a faction focused only on the bone and the “me” aspect associated with acquiring it. They are repulsed. My friends, it is this repulsion which causes our hunting heritage its peril.

We need to stop all the comparisons and have fun!
"No one had ever asked what it feels like to be me. Once I told the truth about that, I felt free. I got to thinking about all the people I know, and the things I’ve seen and done. I can start flying now."-unknown
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby JV NC » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:26 am

Great post, Wilbur.

BTW....I'm looking at a S&W 686. I wanna take one with iron sights.

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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Jay » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:19 am

This is a crazy post!!! :?
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby UPbowhunter » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:01 am

this thread is interesting. i see guys that dont have big private peices kind of jealous of guys that do, and guys that do thinkin they could get it done on pressured public. Im a bowhunter so I like to kill deer with a bow. I dont have any property that I completely control here in Jeresy. Most of my land is public open to anyone. I understand how important it is to hunt where big bucks live. I think you have to understand how important it is to set your goals to what is exceptable to yourself, but must also be realistic to where you hunt. I can look at Muddy, or Stanely and say wow those are some sweet bucks I want to shoot bucks like that. But in all reality their bucks arent a reality to where I hunt. I have to except that a 150 inch deer here is a state class deer not just a shooter. So the 125-150 inch deer are just awesome trouphys and thats that. I have killed deer in that class on public where there was that class of deer. I also look at a guy like Spystar as a guy that has realized this about his area, he has said he never really killed many or any big bucks (?) near his home, so he has learned that if he wants deer like this he needs to travel. This though is what seperates him from others, he doesnt go to a guide, well not in the US, he studies, makes calls, researches, gos to areas he can be successful. Is he better than most hunters, i dont think so, but what he does better than most is study, and reseach, so that seperates him from a big percentage of guys. So I guess my point is put deer hunting into perspective, understand that, dont compair apples to oranges, you dont have to be the best hunter in the world, have fun first. We have alot of great hunters on this site, but lately alot of guys are trying to be something their not.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Stanley » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:58 pm

headgear wrote:
iamyourhuckleberry wrote:Why compare yourself to others? And actually, what should we compare, antlers? In many cases, I have found those without antlers more challenging than those with antlers-a cunning old doe, for example. Why not just hunt for the pleasure it provides? Killing a spike in many locations is as difficult as killing P&Y bucks in others. With that being said, a person can certainly assess the quality in an area, and then establish the bar for himself/herself for that area. I ok with that. "Success", more than not, is a matter of "time". You cannot get-r-done from the couch!


Basically we can't compare ourselves with others outside of our own areas, far to many variables and skill levels involved. Why did I compare myself with others in my area? Because of the thread title of course.

I'm also not sure about this whole time argument being the key ingreedient to success
, sure it is important and I wish I had more of it but then would anyone with unlimited time be a great hunter? When I was a kid I had all the time in the world but didnt have much success, as I got older and more experienced I have far less time but have far more success. We all face obsticals has hunters, we just have to choose if and how we can overcome them to reach out goals.


I'm with you on that, the more you know the less time you need.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Zap » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:19 pm

The list of places that you can sit all day every day and not shoot a thing is long......just ask around. 8-)
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby iamyourhuckleberry » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 am

You cannot be there without time...time on stand, time in the woods, travel time, etc. Without time and the ability to be physically there, it doesn't matter how much you know. How many of you guys hunt without time and are successful?

The list of places you can sit with very little time, effort, and knowledge is long too.

It's time and location boys, time and location...pretty simple.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby dan » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:29 am

iamyourhuckleberry wrote:You cannot be there without time...time on stand, time in the woods, travel time, etc. Without time and the ability to be physically there, it doesn't matter how much you know. How many of you guys hunt without time and are successful?

The list of places you can sit with very little time, effort, and knowledge is long too.

It's time and location boys, time and location...pretty simple.


It takes time... Agreed.

However, sitting all day when "shooter" deer only move the last hours is "time wasted"

Its not how much time we put into hunting, its choosing your time wisely. A guy I know, Andrae D'Aquisto probably hunts less than 80% of the guys on this site, yet, he may hold the world record for the most bow killed booners if he ever gets them all scored....
I too "hunt" a lot less than some of the guys here... Timing is everything.
Hunting when the stars align and not burning out an area is whats most important.
Time needs to be juggled between scouting, hunting, work, family, etc... Pick and choose your time wisely.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby iamyourhuckleberry » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:45 am

I agree Dan,

As much as you need to pick your time wisely, you also have to pick your location wisely. If you are that blind squirrel under the bountiful tree, do you need to be a rocket scientist to use your time and location wisely?

We are trying to assign absolutes to a field that is amply supplied with a mulitude of changing variables-variables which are beyond anyone's control. If we are going to make comparisons, it would be easier to compare apples to oranges.
"No one had ever asked what it feels like to be me. Once I told the truth about that, I felt free. I got to thinking about all the people I know, and the things I’ve seen and done. I can start flying now."-unknown
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby JV NC » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:29 am

The hunting game can be won if you have even one of the following ingredients:

1. LOCATION
2. Lots of time on stand.

You can get away with one and not have the other. But, if you have both - it's a no-brainer.

I see so many people trying to make deer hunting harder than it is. I'll put my money on the "Gomer" with a lot of time to spend on stand....over the seasoned hunter with little time afield.

I'll put my money on the same Gomer hunting great grounds.....over the seasoned hunter with terrible spots to hunt.

Jay Gregory said......"You're only as good as the grounds you hunt". Hear. Hear.



I said this all the way back on page 1.

Why do I feel this way? Well.....for the first few years I hunted, I was living proof.

Of course you have to hunt where a shooter buck resides (shooter buck is relative). See point no. 1.

For the past two seasons, I've hunted less than I ever have.....and seen better bucks than I ever have. I see your points - that hunting smarter may have nothing to do with being in the woods a lot. But, you can still get it done if you're out there enough. Is it the most intelligent way to hunt? No. Conceded.
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