Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

[PEAKRUT]

I love lady luck!

[Stanley]

JV NC was spot on regarding my reference.

At some point, if you kill the same quality deer (cameras alerting you to their presence) from the same place, same time, same result...year after year, etc, then, in my opinion, skill has ceased to evolve and learned behavior has taken over. The only skill remaining is perhaps that associated with shooting the same weapon of choice.

Neither a trip to Africa nor seven states would keep you from developing your prowess. Just try hunting differently. For example, have you ever killed a deer from the ground? With a bow? With a traditional bow? With a newbie in tow? Outside the rut? Only during the first week of the season and nothing beyond? Why not increase the degree of difficulty whenever possible? Why not dive into something unfamiliar? It will test your prowess, and it's a lot of fun!

I also know the guy whom JV NC speaks of-the 12 acre whitetail Guru. On the surface he looks pretty hardcore; there's a photo of him standing in front of all his P&Y bucks. But for those of us who know him, and where he hunted, he is nothing but a opportunist with time and location. Now that he's outside that honey hole/locate, he hasn't killed a deer.

Now for the meat and taters...

I have never felt a need to compare my trophies with those of another man. There would always be too many dissimilarities for such a comparision to be valid. Thus, I do not worry about things of this nature. I hunt, I have fun, and I kill deer of all shapes and sizes whenever the Lord sends them (I start every hunt off with a prayer). Killing big deer is not, by any means, rocket science given time and location. I'll even toss this in. Of all the different species of animals I have hunted, Whitetail are one of the easiest. Try an elk outside the rut, from the ground, if you think you're good.

The guy who intentionally sets out and succesfully kills a zebra in Alaska earns my respect...

You're saying the guy has no skills, is nothing but lucky, hunts long and hard, has killed a lot of P&Y bucks with a bow and arrow and did this all on 12 acres?

[Spysar]

Iamyourhuckelberry, your prowess quote is a little insulting to me as a deer hunter.

Who hunts to prove their "prowess"???

I hunt to kill deer. I like to eat them, and I like big racks. It makes me happy to be able to kill them. I sucked at it when I was young, and now I'm better at it. Whitetails are my passion, I love hunting them.


So now I have to kill one with a stick in Hawai to prove my prowess to you?

And you say whitetails are easy???

This just all sounds weird coming from a guy who travels the world hunting whatever they want...Your prowess must be off the charts, lol.

[iamyourhuckleberry]

Who hunts to prove their "prowess"???

I hunt to kill deer. I like to eat them, and I like big racks. It makes me happy to be able to kill them. I sucked at it when I was young, and now I'm better at it. Whitetails are my passion, I love hunting them.


So now I have to kill one with a stick in Hawai to prove my prowess to you?

Spysar,

You do not have to hunt to prove your prowess to anyone-certainly not me! That's my point! In your case, you have to like to kill deer, like to eat them, like their big racks, and have fun doing it! Nothing more, nothing less! Too many guys get caught up in these "if you could do this or that in in his location" threads. Hunt for you and challenge yourself in the process!

Furthermore, I am sorry if I insulted you-that was not my intention. Honestly though, I get tired of hearing the difficulties of whitetail hunting. They are one of the most abundant animals in North America. They leave tracks and sign everywhere. They are easy to pattern. They use certain funnels and travel corridors, with today's technologies, etc, etc, etc. For an astute individual, a quality deer a year should be child's play. Whether or not it's P&Y is another story...you cannot hunt zebras if they're not there!

Stanley,

You're saying the guy has no skills, is nothing but lucky, hunts long and hard, has killed a lot of P&Y bucks with a bow and arrow and did this all on 12 acres?

I am saying Gommer could have done it there! I am saying he hasn't kill a deer since losing this location. There's a common denominator at play here, and it isn't the hunter.

Am I happy for the guy, you beat!

Good to see you Tony....and me too! I wish I could kill a Zebra in Africa. So far, I lack that prowess!

Zap, me too, providing they are indeed giving it their all! I love seeing growth!

[Stump]

Spysar,

You do not have to hunt to prove your prowess to anyone-certainly not me! That's my point! In your case, you have to like to kill deer, like to eat them, like their big racks, and have fun doing it! Nothing more, nothing less! Too many guys get caught up in these "if you could do this or that in in his location" threads. Hunt for you and challenge yourself in the process!

Furthermore, I am sorry if I insulted you-that was not my intention. Honestly though, [glow=red]I get tired of hearing the difficulties of whitetail hunting. They are one of the most abundant animals in North America. They leave tracks and sign everywhere. They are easy to pattern. They use certain funnels and travel corridors, with today's technologies, etc, etc, etc. For an astute individual, a quality deer a year should be child's play.[/glow] Whether or not it's P&Y is another story...you cannot hunt zebras if they're not there!
!

I'm feeling a touch inadequate now. LOL! Looking at the number of years I've been deer hunting and then look at my kills throughout those years, seems as though I have little to no luck and little to no skill. It should be easy.....

[Buckfever]

I think part of the problem is that the question is asked here. On a general forum, where it's mostly Gomers, the conclusions apply that the hunting locale is the dominant determinant of success. We probably all know some "12 acre success guys", whom we know do not have our hunting proficiency so that when they lose their honey hole, so too they lose their success.

I think we probably all know some that might of got lucky once on a quality buck and think they're all that and then will go 10 years and never even see one let alone get a shot at one.

But these arguements make the point, that skill matters.

It's an interesting dicussion, but really what it is, is that both skills and locale create luck.

That said, on highly pressured public or private land to kill a mature whitetail buck, meaning 4.5+ is very difficult. Heck rut or not, Gomer never sees these deer. Ever.

[headgear]

I think it's safe to say that the land someone hunts can make them appear to have more skill, I would also venture to say the guys hunting harder and smarter can make their own luck. I think the best way to measure skill is by comparing yourself to other hunters in your area, look at your neighbors and the guys you hunt with. You probably already know where you stand. I hunt with a bunch of gomers, the average hunter here is going to put down 1-3 good bucks in a lifetime, some of them never shoot one. I consider myself far more skilled than most of these guys but there is a pretty big gap between me and the top dog in the area. Give me some time and I hope to catch up to this guy, luck won't have much to do with it.

The best part about this site is very few people are making excuses for where they hunt or trying to compare ourselves all the time. I'd like to think we strive to go out and be the best hunter in our area and take what quality bucks are available to us. That might be a public land 100 incher or a booner but more than likely if you have the skills you are doing somehting most guys in your area are not doing.

Lets use the 12 acre guy for an example, could a skilled hunter have the same success, I think so. Could the average gomer do it year after year, I'm not so sure. Maybe over time the gomer aquires some skill and experience and then is able to get it done. I could say someone else has every advantage and pout because I am stuck on public land or a small peice of private ground that doesn't produce good bucks but for me that just sounds like I am making excuses instead of rising to the challenge.

[Swampthing]

I think it's safe to say that the land someone hunts can make them appear to have more skill, I would also venture to say the guys hunting harder and smarter can make their own luck. I think the best way to measure skill is by comparing yourself to other hunters in your area, look at your neighbors and the guys you hunt with. You probably already know where you stand. I hunt with a bunch of gomers, the average hunter here is going to put down 1-3 good bucks in a lifetime, some of them never shoot one. I consider myself far more skilled than most of these guys but there is a pretty big gap between me and the top dog in the area. Give me some time and I hope to catch up to this guy, luck won't have much to do with it.

The best part about this site is very few people are making excuses for where they hunt or trying to compare ourselves all the time. I'd like to think we strive to go out and be the best hunter in our area and take what quality bucks are available to us. That might be a public land 100 incher or a booner but more than likely if you have the skills you are doing somehting most guys in your area are not doing.

Lets use the 12 acre guy for an example, could a skilled hunter have the same success, I think so. Could the average gomer do it year after year, I'm not so sure. Maybe over time the gomer aquires some skill and experience and then is able to get it done. I could say someone else has every advantage and pout because I am stuck on public land or a small peice of private ground that doesn't produce good bucks but for me that just sounds like I am making excuses instead of rising to the challenge.

Very well said. Good post.

[ Post made via Android ]

[iamyourhuckleberry]

Stump,

I feel the same way, honestly.

Colorado has an estimated 7000 whitetails in the entire state. We have 104,000 square miles of real estate in the state. 52,000 square miles of that is Whitetail habitat. I assume 50% percent of those deer are bucks-of any size. Doing the math, that roughly .07 deer/square mile. If you're hunting here, I will cut you some slack!

[magicman54494]

The guy who intentionally sets out and succesfully kills a zebra in Alaska earns my respect...

I'd like to see this too!

[Zap]

JV NC was spot on regarding my reference.

At some point, if you kill the same quality deer (cameras alerting you to their presence) from the same place, same time, same result...year after year, etc, then, in my opinion, skill has ceased to evolve and learned behavior has taken over. The only skill remaining is perhaps that associated with shooting the same weapon of choice.

Neither a trip to Africa nor seven states would keep you from developing your prowess. Just try hunting differently. For example, have you ever killed a deer from the ground? With a bow? With a traditional bow? With a newbie in tow? Outside the rut? Only during the first week of the season and nothing beyond? Why not increase the degree of difficulty whenever possible? Why not dive into something unfamiliar? It will test your prowess, and it's a lot of fun!

I also know the guy whom JV NC speaks of-the 12 acre whitetail Guru. On the surface he looks pretty hardcore; there's a photo of him standing in front of all his P&Y bucks. But for those of us who know him, and where he hunted, he is nothing but a opportunist with time and location. Now that he's outside that honey hole/locate, he hasn't killed a deer.

Now for the meat and taters...

I have never felt a need to compare my trophies with those of another man. There would always be too many dissimilarities for such a comparision to be valid. Thus, I do not worry about things of this nature. I hunt, I have fun, and I kill deer of all shapes and sizes whenever the Lord sends them (I start every hunt off with a prayer). Killing big deer is not, by any means, rocket science given time and location. I'll even toss this in. Of all the different species of animals I have hunted, Whitetail are one of the easiest. Try an elk outside the rut, from the ground, if you think you're good.

The guy who intentionally sets out and succesfully kills a zebra in Alaska earns my respect...

You're saying the guy has no skills, is nothing but lucky, hunts long and hard, has killed a lot of P&Y bucks with a bow and arrow and did this all on 12 acres?

[iamyourhuckleberry]

I think the best way to measure skill is by [glow=red]comparing yourself to other hunters[/glow] in your area, look at your neighbors and the guys you hunt with.

Why compare yourself to others? And actually, what should we compare, antlers? In many cases, I have found those without antlers more challenging than those with antlers-a cunning old doe, for example. Why not just hunt for the pleasure it provides? Killing a spike in many locations is as difficult as killing P&Y bucks in others. With that being said, a person can certainly assess the quality in an area, and then establish the bar for himself/herself for that area. I ok with that. "Success", more than not, is a matter of "time". You cannot get-r-done from the couch!

[Autumn Ninja]

Stump,

I feel the same way, honestly.

Colorado has an estimated 7000 whitetails in the entire state. We have 104,000 square miles of real estate in the state. 52,000 square miles of that is Whitetail habitat. I assume 50% percent of those deer are bucks-of any size. Doing the math, that roughly .07 deer/square mile. If you're hunting here, I will cut you some slack!

I have a couple good friends that went to Colordo for an elk hunt last year, they seen a few good bulls up high and way off, but never got a kill. They also seen multiple BIG whitetails in the lower parts...a lot more whitetail than elk. The guide told them that there a lot of giant whitetails in that area that almost never get hunted, everyone goes there for the elk.

I'm sure it has to do with the location they were in but there going to Colorado for a whitetail hunt this year, lol.

[Schultzy]

I think it's safe to say that the land someone hunts can make them appear to have more skill, I would also venture to say the guys hunting harder and smarter can make their own luck. I think the best way to measure skill is by comparing yourself to other hunters in your area, look at your neighbors and the guys you hunt with. You probably already know where you stand. I hunt with a bunch of gomers, the average hunter here is going to put down 1-3 good bucks in a lifetime, some of them never shoot one. I consider myself far more skilled than most of these guys but there is a pretty big gap between me and the top dog in the area. Give me some time and I hope to catch up to this guy, luck won't have much to do with it.

The best part about this site is very few people are making excuses for where they hunt or trying to compare ourselves all the time. I'd like to think we strive to go out and be the best hunter in our area and take what quality bucks are available to us. That might be a public land 100 incher or a booner but more than likely if you have the skills you are doing somehting most guys in your area are not doing.

Lets use the 12 acre guy for an example, could a skilled hunter have the same success, I think so. Could the average gomer do it year after year, I'm not so sure. Maybe over time the gomer aquires some skill and experience and then is able to get it done. I could say someone else has every advantage and pout because I am stuck on public land or a small peice of private ground that doesn't produce good bucks but for me that just sounds like I am making excuses instead of rising to the challenge.

Good post headgear! Anyone hunting a target rich area on small parcels of land Is going to have much better odds. You on the other hand hunt the north woods In big country. Target rich or not your hunting Is tough no matter what. I'll tip my hat to the guy who gets It done on a consistent basis or not In your conditions any day of the week compared to the target rich farm country.

My dad moved north to northern Minnesota 12 years ago. While he lived where I do now he hunted whitetails for 25 years. He shot 3 P&Y bucks In them 25 years and passed many that were In that 125 Inch range. That's pretty good for our area as most of our bucks don't get age to them. When he moved he was lost In the big country with his deer hunting. 12 years Into It he's starting to figure It out up there but he's still got a long ways to go. One thing he's figured out Is their roaming range In the big woods Is huge. They can be In his area one day and a week later someone will see the same buck 5 miles down the road. That don't happen around here. Luck Is part of hunting too, specially In the big north woods. Timbers also make your hunting Interesting up there.

[Stanley]

Stump,

I feel the same way, honestly.

Colorado has an estimated 7000 whitetails in the entire state. We have 104,000 square miles of real estate in the state. 52,000 square miles of that is Whitetail habitat. I assume 50% percent of those deer are bucks-of any size. Doing the math, that roughly .07 deer/square mile. If you're hunting here, I will cut you some slack!

So would it be extreme luck to kill a mature buck in Colorado? I think the 12 acre guy reiterated one requisite point; you can't kill what isn't there.