Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

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JV NC
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby JV NC » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:38 pm

The fellow that hunts an awful lot in the wrong spot will no do as well as the fellow who hunts the right spot once.



So, we're back to "location"? :D

(just kidding.................................kinda)


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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Zap » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:50 pm

I said spot not area. :mrgreen:

I look around on public alot and see alot of stands that are in a good area, but the spot they are in is not so good.
Plus the fact that these stands are still there kinda tells me something also.

Personally I hope that I am healthy enough to go and hunt public hard at the beginning of season next Sept.

I believe that success on public land out of the prime rut is one way to seperate the skill level of a hunter and I would like to achive that success..for ME.

I just wish I was better at finding the bedding areas.....
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby iamyourhuckleberry » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:05 pm

Stanley,

I’ve seen the glowing text. I’m not sure where you would like me to go with the discussion. I've already conceded, by definition, hunting involves skill (I believe a few times now). I will even go as far as to say, I agree, astuteness takes its form in varying degrees. If hunting were easy, everyone would do it. On the other hand, if it were hard, children couldn’t do it-that’s not the case. When a man leaves New Orleans for an elk hunt in Colorado, I can assume he has more skill than the man who remains in the city....is this an assumption upon which we can both agree?

This game of connect the dots is not that hard to solve-providing you have had sufficient exposure. Let me give you an example. I could take the man mentioned above (from New Orleans) to a friend's property outside Estes Park, Colorado. From that location, he could and would kill a Boone and Crockett bull every year for the rest of his life (on the surface, he'd become a saint back home). If he returned to this same location year after year, his lack of skill would quickly diminish-again, by definition. If I were to take that same hunter to Colorado’s oak brush country, I assure you, his skill meter would never get off zero. Take him to elevation (above 10,000 feet) and that same gauge may roll backwards! If you were to ask, "At what age does a deer become an elk?" He wouldn't be able to answer. It's happening....and it is called skill.

I have seen enough (watched my father, a great hunter, kill three monster elk with his pants down around his ankles-luck or skill?), have done enough, and am humble enough to know that all realms of possibility are possible. Is it luck or skill if a skilled hunter kills a deer upon returning to camp and the deer was standing in camp? Again, it happens! We hear about it all the time.

I care absolutely not one iota to compare myself against this man ( I hunt for me). There’s too much pretense surrounding such hunters! Am I happy for him? YES! I do, however, understand he is not me and I am not him. The fact that we are completely different makes any comparison invalid. My friend, this is my main point and the primary reason for my involvement in this thread.

Dan,

You’ve stated, "It’s no different than me looking at a woods and saying, the buck is likely bedded in one of 8 spots, and then hunting each 8 spots until I shoot him...."

I get it-enhancing your odds. I believe, however, it can it go beyond that. What if you only had one day to hunt-your life depended on success? What if you used the "Force" and then successfully picked the winner in one hour? Is such a thing possible? I have hunted with guys that can do exactly that! I use the word "Force" because I cannot explain it, and neither can they.

I've seen some incredibly skilled bushman in Africa. There isn't a single one of us here that could hold a candle to these hunters. On a lion hunt in Namibia, a Damara tracker examined the spoor of the beast we were there to kill. Without hesitation, he turned my colleagues and I around 180 degrees and hurried us along. He explained through our translator, ‘We have four hours to get to this point and build a hide”. We did exactly as we were told. Sure enough, four hours later, the lion, a lioness and two subordinate males strolled past. The big male was killed and the group celebrated. Later, while dining on lion with the Bushmen in their encampment, I asked (via the translator) what the tracker had seen in the spoor. I wanted to know what had caused us to abandon the path; what had caused us to turn the opposite direct. I was told, “He says his gut told him to go there.” Needless to say, I was both impressed and dumbfounded!
I could go on telling stories like this forever (wish I had more time). These blokes can stay on a track for days-over nothing but pure rock. Their skills are beyond anything most of us would consider possible! And yet, if skill was the only factor associated with hunting, they wouldn't have extended stomachs. I could only wish I were half as good as these hunters. Again, any comparison would be foolish.

Zap, I wish you skill getting him! I would enjoy seeing the pics and hearing the story when you do!
"No one had ever asked what it feels like to be me. Once I told the truth about that, I felt free. I got to thinking about all the people I know, and the things I’ve seen and done. I can start flying now."-unknown
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Buckfever » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:36 pm

“He says his gut told him to go there.”

See this is where we will disagree. Some will refer to this as luck or instinct. I call it skill. The gut feeling is IMO simply a confluence of gained skill that we might not be able to articulate, but is entirely predicated on skill, a confluence of learnings that we can't articulate, but when we heed stacks the odds in our favor.

I think part of becoming a skilled hunter is what we discard. The vast array of horse feathers that's promoted under the cloak of sound hunting tactics that is nothing but profit driven drivel. Sometimes the nonsense that we discard gets us back to our true and natural predatory instinct, where maybe things aren't fair or cozy, but they're right. Sometimes it's there that we unleash our predatory instinct and we can begin to ruthlessly and joyously stack the odds in our favour. It's a communion that perhaps only the true hunter understands and seeks to discover.
Last edited by Stanley on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Masked vulgar language (ie, w*rd, rul*s, etc) is considered vulgar.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby iamyourhuckleberry » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:00 pm

The gut feeling is IMO simply a confluence of gained skill that we might not be able to articulate, but is entirely predicated on skill, a confluence of learnings that we can't articulate, but when we heed stacks the odds in our favor.


Maybe so, maybe so.

I was fourteen and on my very first elk hunt. My mother and I were walking up a trail. I grabbed her and told her to get ready. She stared at me...confused. I Whispered, "Mom get ready. Two elk are going to come over that hill." I raised my rifle. Twenty seconds later two cow elk walked over the rise 200 yards in front of us. I fired and kill my first cow. My mother stood there amazed-not by the fact that I had killed an elk but rather that I had sensed them before either of us had seen them.

My first bull was killed in similar fashion. I was among friends travel via pickup in a caravan of five vehicles. I was in the last truck going up the road. My good friend Tom Young was driving. Something came over me, a gut feeling. I shouted. Stop!. I stepped from the truck-the other trucks continued traveling. I walked to the driver's side and started scanning the hillside 600 yards away (on one side of a valley looking at the other). It took me three seconds to find the bull. For some reason, I knew exactly where to look. My other two travel companions could not find the bull even when I tried to point it out. They never saw it until I had him flopping from my shot.

These two elk came a year apart. My confluence of learnings up to this point came from the demise of birds and chipmunks via my BB gun.

Those gut feeling continue to this day...

Is it possible our bodies have the abilty to act as antennas? Can we tune into energies unseen but felt?
"No one had ever asked what it feels like to be me. Once I told the truth about that, I felt free. I got to thinking about all the people I know, and the things I’ve seen and done. I can start flying now."-unknown
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Zap » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:20 pm

:mrgreen: May the force be with you. :mrgreen:



8-) Personally, I will take good intel and a good plan over a good feeling anyday. 8-)


I seek no advantage over another hunter, I seek advantage over the game that I hunt, and the harder I work the luckier I get.
"Forged in fire lit long ago. Stand next to me and you will never stand alone".
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby JV NC » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:53 am

See this is where we will disagree. Some will refer to this as luck or instinct. I call it skill. The gut feeling is IMO simply a confluence of gained skill that we might not be able to articulate, but is entirely predicated on skill, a confluence of learnings that we can't articulate, but when we heed stacks the odds in our favor.

I think part of becoming a skilled hunter is what we discard. The vast array of horse feathers that's promoted under the cloak of sound hunting tactics that is nothing but profit driven drivel. Sometimes the nonsense that we discard gets us back to our true and natural predatory instinct, where maybe things aren't fair or cozy, but they're right. Sometimes it's there that we unleash our predatory instinct and we can begin to ruthlessly and joyously stack the odds in our favour. It's a communion that perhaps only the true hunter understands and seeks to discover.


Man what a good post! (IMO) One of my favorites I've seen posted, here. :clap:

When you think about how personal; intricate; etc... hunting is.....with unknown outcomes around every corner, who's to say what's right/wrong? Why even try? Just share what you've experienced, and be thankful the "other guy"'s willing to do the same!

WONDERFUL stuff in this thread! Thanks (all) for sharing.

A disagreement isn't an argument. It's an opportunity for someone (maybe all parties) to learn something. In each/either instance it's an opportunity to exhibit respect.

Again....good stuff, here.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby iamyourhuckleberry » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:52 am

I agree Jeff,

Buckfever's post was excellent! Thanks Buckfever!

I also believe yours that followed summed things up beautifully. Thank you. Thanks everyone!

Personally, I will take good intel and a good plan over a good feeling anyday


I hear ya Zap. Personally, I will try to passionately grasp/connect with it all.

I'm not kidding, I do want to see the photos and hear the story when you kill your buck!
"No one had ever asked what it feels like to be me. Once I told the truth about that, I felt free. I got to thinking about all the people I know, and the things I’ve seen and done. I can start flying now."-unknown
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goldtip5575
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby goldtip5575 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:04 am

Buckfever wrote:“He says his gut told him to go there.”

See this is where we will disagree. Some will refer to this as luck or instinct. I call it skill. The gut feeling is IMO simply a confluence of gained skill that we might not be able to articulate, but is entirely predicated on skill, a confluence of learnings that we can't articulate, but when we heed stacks the odds in our favor.

I think part of becoming a skilled hunter is what we discard. The vast array of horse feathers that's promoted under the cloak of sound hunting tactics that is nothing but profit driven drivel. Sometimes the nonsense that we discard gets us back to our true and natural predatory instinct, where maybe things aren't fair or cozy, but they're right. Sometimes it's there that we unleash our predatory instinct and we can begin to ruthlessly and joyously stack the odds in our favour. It's a communion that perhaps only the true hunter understands and seeks to discover.

[tab=30] And how many times has his gut told him to go there and its been wrong?Seems like we remember only the times your gut has been right and forget all the wrong times.Kind of like the gambler who tells you about the big payday but forgets to tell you about the losing times.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Buckfever » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:23 pm

goldtip5575 wrote:[And how many times has his gut told him to go there and its been wrong?Seems like we remember only the times your gut has been right and forget all the wrong times.Kind of like the gambler who tells you about the big payday but forgets to tell you about the losing times."


I think the difference is that we're talking about someone, who attributes his successful stacking of the odds to gut, versus the gambler, in this example who cannot stack the odds, all he can do is lie to himself. And that brings out a very important point, you see a lot of it here, where in the discussion, a lot of the horse crap is immediately and aggressively dismissed.

I think that's a really really big part of it, to be willing to challenge your assumptions and be willing to acheive a higher level of understanding. Unlike the gambler in this example who on balance is losing his pants and only lives for the thrill of getting lucky once in a while and is lying to himself about his skill.

I know exactly what you're talking about. It's like the guy who brag about the 1" 3 arrow group they can shoot at 30. And when I put 50 arrows in a 5" circle at 30 from an elevated position with the gear on, they stop shooting and watch. Who are we kidding? I was there that week, in the next zone when you wounded 7 deer in a row and we released 10 arrow and 10 deer died. Every single year, I have to shoot 1000 arrows with the gear on to get there. No short cuts. I'm not going pretend.

I think that's alot of what makes this site unique, is that everyone is striving to get better. I don't care call me out ,embarrass me, but make me better.
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby JV NC » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:59 pm

Another post that I thoroughly enjoyed, buckfever. :)
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Re: Is your advantage over other hunters skill or luck?

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:26 pm

Fast becoming a great thread.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.


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