How Often.......Doe/Buck Bedding

[Brad]

I just had a thought hit me like a ton of bricks. A few years ago I was hunting down my Darlington Wi in the morning, and later that efternoon I went to a different spot an hour north of there. We were in the parking lot of a public hunting area, this was the last day of the rifle season in 2008. As we were getting the guns out a decent buck jumped up out of a clump of weeds right next to the bathroom facilities, and ran up to the woods and stopped and looked at us, but we couldn't get a shot of in time. I always wondered why that buck was right next to the parking lot, now I know why, he was there because no one ever figured he would be. This is a major turning point for me!

[JV NC]

As far as the bucks avoiding the does, the reason I dissagree with that theorie is because in the areas where I can pick out buck bedding on ariels, topo's, or by just looking at it, I don't find does...

Like I said.....I wouldn't expect you to (find a mature buck....where does are bedding - or vice-versa).

[GRFox]

As far as the bucks avoiding the does, the reason I dissagree with that theorie is because in the areas where I can pick out buck bedding on ariels, topo's, or by just looking at it, I don't find does...

Like I said.....I wouldn't expect you to (find a mature buck....where does are bedding - or vice-versa).

I think you are misinterpreting does bedding in a buck bedding area or buck bed. No one is implying a group of does will go and occupy a bucks bed or bedding area.

Barren does, does that do not breed any more, does that have gone through deer menopause, do not bed in doe groups. They dont do anything like a younger doe at all, and typically live the lifestyle of an older buck. I watched one for years, she bedded in the same exact bed on most days (the tip of a point coming off the side of a small ridge), and every day before dark she would leave her bed and walk 75 yards into a field and feed there all night. In the morning you would see her on the ridge near her bed meandering around.

I kept an eye on this doe for years, and never, not even once was she with another deer. She was probrably 200lbs and had a head bigger than a proffesional football. I am assuming way over 10 years old.

The point I am getting at here is these are the kind of does that you would occasionaly see bedding in a buck bedding area. I would agree with you 100% that outside the rut, a doe group and bucks would never bed together, but the instance being spoken about in this thread would relate to barren, lone does like the one I described above.

[Stanley]

As far as the bucks avoiding the does, the reason I dissagree with that theorie is because in the areas where I can pick out buck bedding on ariels, topo's, or by just looking at it, I don't find does...

Like I said.....I wouldn't expect you to (find a mature buck....where does are bedding - or vice-versa).

I think you are misinterpreting does bedding in a buck bedding area or buck bed. No one is implying a group of does will go and occupy a bucks bed or bedding area.

Barren does, does that do not breed any more, does that have gone through deer menopause, do not bed in doe groups. They dont do anything like a younger doe at all, and typically live the lifestyle of an older buck. I watched one for years, she bedded in the same exact bed on most days (the tip of a point coming off the side of a small ridge), and every day before dark she would leave her bed and walk 75 yards into a field and feed there all night. In the morning you would see her on the ridge near her bed meandering around.

I kept an eye on this doe for years, and never, not even once was she with another deer. She was probrably 200lbs and had a head bigger than a proffesional football. I am assuming way over 10 years old.

The point I am getting at here is these are the kind of does that you would occasionaly see bedding in a buck bedding area. I would agree with you 100% that outside the rut, a doe group and bucks would never bed together, but the instance being spoken about in this thread would relate to barren, lone does like the one I described above.

I think this is a very informative post. Not many think about a worn out doe.

[JV NC]

The point I am getting at here is these are the kind of does that you would occasionaly see bedding in a buck bedding area. I would agree with you 100% that outside the rut, a doe group and bucks would never bed together, but the instance being spoken about in this thread would relate to barren, lone does like the one I described above.

What percentage of does do you think this (barren) affliction encompasses?

Can you link me to a study that talks about barren does not being social?

Thanks.

[headgear]

I can't say this has happened a lot but I have run into a couple lone older does that were bedding in or close to a buck bedding area. It was too thick to tell if they were in the actual bed I had scouted out but they were certainly in the area.

[JV NC]

How do you guys tell if a doe is "older"? Or, how do you distinguish 2.5yo's+?

The largest does however aren’t necessarily the oldest. Like humans, female deer come in many shapes and sizes. I have seen 3½ year old does win “heavy” doe contests where entrants ranged from 1½-6½+ years old. These deer were harvested on properties in close proximity to each other with comparable habitats, so the weight differences weren’t a function of nutritional differences. Conversely, I have recorded 75 lb. (dressed wt.) 5½ year old does from northern ranges. These deer were healthy and they had abundant kidney and body fat (2 measures of nutritional fitness), they were just small in stature. - Kip Adams ODMA

[GRFox]

The point I am getting at here is these are the kind of does that you would occasionaly see bedding in a buck bedding area. I would agree with you 100% that outside the rut, a doe group and bucks would never bed together, but the instance being spoken about in this thread would relate to barren, lone does like the one I described above.

What percentage of does do you think this (barren) affliction encompasses?

Can you link me to a study that talks about barren does not being social?

Thanks.

No I do not have a link to any studies nor do I have any idea what percentage of does are "barren". I was under the impression that this was common knowledge amongst deer hunters.

I had a conversation at an outdoor expo with Shane Benoit where we discussed barren old does and how many times he tracked a deer for many hours thinking it was a bucck when in fact it was a huge old doe.

Im not sure what study would be done or who would fund such a study being that it would not be benificial for any reason to deer management nor would that knowledge help anyone in any way. Sometimes you just except things for what they are based on the fact that this knowledge has come from decades of hunters observing natural behaviours of deer in the wild, not a study of a couple of radio collered or fenced deer.

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[GRFox]

How do you guys tell if a doe is "older"? Or, how do you distinguish 2.5yo's+?

The largest does however aren’t necessarily the oldest. Like humans, female deer come in many shapes and sizes. I have seen 3½ year old does win “heavy” doe contests where entrants ranged from 1½-6½+ years old. These deer were harvested on properties in close proximity to each other with comparable habitats, so the weight differences weren’t a function of nutritional differences. Conversely, I have recorded 75 lb. (dressed wt.) 5½ year old does from northern ranges. These deer were healthy and they had abundant kidney and body fat (2 measures of nutritional fitness), they were just small in stature. - Kip Adams ODMA

You would assume a doe was older if she has a football head and 200lba body. There will always be cases where younger deer sport bigger bodies or bigger racks than the average deer of that age. The "huge" does are going to be older deer more often then they are going to be a freak 200lb 3 year old. Sure there will be some variations in the size of does in different doe groups but I think it would be rather obvious which does are older than others if one is substantialy larger in size.

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[JV NC]

No I do not have a link to any studies nor do I have any idea what percentage of does are "barren". I was under the impression that this was common knowledge amongst deer hunters.

Just never heard it, myself. Heck, they study everything else. I thought you might have a link. No problem.

Im not sure what study would be done or who would fund such a study being that it would not be benificial for any reason to deer management nor would that knowledge help anyone in any way.

I agree. Which is why I'm puzzled we're discussing barren does.

[GRFox]

No I do not have a link to any studies nor do I have any idea what percentage of does are "barren". I was under the impression that this was common knowledge amongst deer hunters.

Just never heard it, myself. Heck, they study everything else. I thought you might have a link. No problem.

Im not sure what study would be done or who would fund such a study being that it would not be benificial for any reason to deer management nor would that knowledge help anyone in any way.

I agree. Which is why I'm puzzled we're discussing barren does.

LOL well at least we are on the same page.

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[dan]

I do occasionally see lone large does without fawns bedding like bucks... I can't say what percentage do that though, it seems like a small percentage cause I think there are more old does than bucks, and I see does in this mannor a lot less.

[JV NC]

I'm just discussing and trying to learn some things. I hope my inquisitiveness is respectfully received. That's my intention.

Dan...I rarely see does where I hunt for bucks. The ridge I killed my 10-pointer off of this year....is a spot I've been to maybe 6-7X since 2008. I rarely get a wind, at the right time, to go in there. I've seen maybe one or two does there.....and maybe a dozen bucks. I hunted that spot 1X this year. I've got a couple more areas like that (where I rarely even see does).

Hence my curiosity.

p.s. I JUST ordered your hill country DVD.

[Stanley]

I'm just discussing and trying to learn some things. I hope my inquisitiveness is respectfully received. That's my intention.

Dan...I rarely see does where I hunt for bucks. The ridge I killed my 10-pointer off of this year....is a spot I've been to maybe 6-7X since 2008. I rarely get a wind, at the right time, to go in there. I've seen maybe one or two does there.....and maybe a dozen bucks. I hunted that spot 1X this year. I've got a couple more areas like that (where I rarely even see does).

Hence my curiosity.

p.s. I JUST ordered your hill country DVD.

What would be the reason for this?

[JV NC]

What would be the reason for this?

Well...I hope you don't think this fact disappoints me. If I'm trying to kill a buck (outside the rut)....and I'm seeing does......I know I'm in the wrong place.

IMO, the reason is....bucks don't want anything to do with does, outside the rut. Does are too visible....and their bedding area choices reflect that.