All this talk of hunting mature bucks...

[Bowhunting Brian]

By the way, many of you may be surprised by this, but Andrae told me he could care less how old the buck is, for him its all about rack size. The younger ones are just easier to kill.

you mean the "Cage"

[Edcyclopedia]

I have some drops off him to historically date him (he doesn't look that old but surely is).

Another fine point...
Example- I've seen a black lab at 6 years old have a grey muzzle and others at 10 or 11 with no grey...
To a point it's the part of genetics that can make deer (or dogs or humans) look old/young, be heavier/lighter, grow bigger/smaller antlers, etc, etc...
The previous and current years food availability help determine some of the weight or antler gains or restrictions (each season) but does it affect the look of the deer.
I guess lack of food could be stressful and make them look old too???

[Stanley]

Another fine point...
Example- I've seen a black lab at 6 years old have a grey muzzle and others at 10 or 11 with no grey...
To a point it's the part of genetics that can make deer (or dogs or humans) look old/young, be heavier/lighter, grow bigger/smaller antlers, etc, etc...
The previous and current years food availability help determine some of the weight or antler gains or restrictions (each season) but does it affect the look of the deer.
I guess lack of food could be stressful and make them look old too???[/quote]

Great point ED

[Buckfever]

I think for me when I see a young animal say 2.5 that's pushing 130, I'd rather let that animal go and give it a chance to realize it's potential and if I see an animal that maybe I know is 4.5+ based on history or based on body size and body morphology and that only grosses maybe 130-135, I tend not to have reservations taking that animal. That is unless I know there's an older monster floating around and he's the target.

I think it mostly comes down to what you want to do. When I went to the public land I started over, just killing deer and gradually, it's gone back to hunting the mature buck. It's what fires me up. But I can see a time when the kids are off to school, that I might take to the woods late season again and after the rut, just kill deer again.

On a canvass of white, paint the snow with a spray of red, stop for a moment and listen to the silence of the woods, feel the chill as my face presses against the wind. And thank God that I'm alive.....and ponder: "Me I'm just a hunter and I give'm a smile."

[dan]

My opinion, the #1 reason they are harder to kill; Rarity. They don't smell better, they don't run faster, they don't jump higher, they don't see better.

Right but they also don't move as much, I think every year their core area they move during daylight hours shrinks in half, so add that to less of them & they are way harder to kill.
They also have survived another fall of avoiding hunters & surviving so they are smater in that way.
[ Post made via Palm ] [img]

Exactly what I was thinking... Every deer I have watched make it from 3 to 4 changed dramatically in the amount of daylight movement... I say Stan's statement is correct, but there are still huge differences between 3 1/2 and 4 1/2

[Bucky]

I think one thing that makes a 4.5 harder to kill.

It's because they are rare. There are less of them than younger age classes.

Yes, they are smarter, but the rarity is what factors in to make it harder, as most people(myself included) have a hard time passing a 3.5.

Agree 100%

Exactly the same reason a guy should consider letting that "nice" looking 3yr old walk in certain situations where you think you will have a shot at the deer living another year in the given environment... so you have a rare 4yr old to chase. Standards can change on heavily hunted public (mine do), but on a large or secluded chunk of private you are esentially shooting yourself in the foot

Sometimes that extra year is the difference between a good buck 130"ish and a gagger 160"s+

So aside from fearing a guy would burn his spots out why even hunt the public ya know? If you know you have massive deer roaming a piece of secluded private because you passed them last year, why are you messing around on public land that gets pounded and produces deer than don't even come within 30" of the deer you have on private? This isn't a shot at you Bucky its a hypothetical open to the group

BWH - No offense taken... I don't hunt ground that doesn't have the caliber bucks I'm looking for... period! I don't waste my time... I have layed out on this site numerous times how to find ground that holds trophy bucks (I started killing them when I was poor college student)... I'm telling you once you get good at it there is a pattern...

I'd bet there are guys that are willing to help you right here on this site... all you have to do is ask

If all I could afford to hunt was the local 40-80 acres near my home/school... then I'm saying my standards would adjust accordingly... if there is only one 140" deer in a 2hr drive while shining... I'm not holding out for a 140"

Spend your energy finding these spots 1st... then get better at killing them... look at those guys here year after year that kill em Ninja, Dan, Dor, Spy, Mud, Magic, etc

Then ask yourself what do they have in common... drive, multiple good hunting locations, tons of preperation (I bet they are planning now for next year), attention to detail, years of experience killing small deer 1st (this part can be skipped but your shot experience and set experience will be suffer), time spend actually scouting/hunting,etc
But out of all these I think the keys are location, drive to meet set goals, and time to do it - Dan is probably one of a kind in that he may be doing it on higher pressure grounds (but he has mentioned that when he was younger it was a huge drive of his to kill giant bucks, and I bet he spent a lot of time hunting)... but even he has said multiple times you can't kill what is not there

It took me over 10yrs to put together the spots I have now (and I look all year long), 10yrs from now I hope to have 3x as many... with options comes opportunity. This will work in your business/professional/personal life as well.


Sorry for the long winded reply

The biggest bucks that I know of alive reside on public land by the way

[BackWoodsHunter]

That was inspiring LOL I am getting better, I am finding bigger bucks and finding where they are located sort of. At this rate I'll only be onto 1 a year or 1 every couple years. This year the big one came to me. I am done with school now and moving back to Brookfield (waukesha county) I am heading out at first light tomorrow to check out some of the spots I haven't hunted in years. I pulled a couple maps hoping to find some good sign. I can see the guys consistently killing big bucks do have the drive to do it as you said, "just good enough" is never good enough for them, they always want a step above it.

[Buckfever]

"The biggest bucks that I know of alive reside on public land by the way."

That's the case for me as well. It seems odd at first glance, because there's a lot more pressure on the public land, but the fact is that there's not a lot of intelligent pressure on the public land. So a lot of the bucks get educated quickly before they get killed.

[dan]

So aside from fearing a guy would burn his spots out why even hunt the public ya know? If you know you have massive deer roaming a piece of secluded private because you passed them last year, why are you messing around on public land that gets pounded and produces deer than don't even come within 30" of the deer you have on private? This isn't a shot at you Bucky its a hypothetical open to the group

I would reply with, if you have that good of private land, why would you want to over hunt it and burn it out?
I think Buckys reply really hit the nail on the head... Look at my results lately, sure I got a great buck recently, but when the pressure got heavy here, and the numbers of big bucks went way down, I stayed. My mature buck kills plumited. Yes, you can get it done, and I do, on very heavy hunted land. But hunting where there are more big bucks certainly ups your odds.
I also agree with Buck that I always know where some increadable bucks are on public... Killing them can be really hard, but me? I just gotta try, and as for Bucky, I would bet his hunts on his private land are better cause he spends time on public and relaxes the pressure on his private.

[ozzz]

I would reply with, if you have that good of private land, why would you want to over hunt it and burn it out?
I think Buckys reply really hit the nail on the head... Look at my results lately, sure I got a great buck recently, but when the pressure got heavy here, and the numbers of big bucks went way down, I stayed. My mature buck kills plumited. Yes, you can get it done, and I do, on very heavy hunted land. But hunting where there are more big bucks certainly ups your odds.
I also agree with Buck that I always know where some increadable bucks are on public... Killing them can be really hard, but me? I just gotta try, and as for Bucky, I would bet his hunts on his private land are better cause he spends time on public and relaxes the pressure on his private.[/quote]


This is what Im trying to get into.

[JV NC]

I hunted my best farm just 3X all season. It's 150ac's.

Not every part of the farm holds good bucks. The parts that do are only good on winds with an "E" in them. That's rare, here......hence my trepidation in going in any more often than I do.

I got that wind 3X. I was there every time. It paid off on 11/7.

Sometimes the best thing to do is stay out.

[Arrowbender]

Awesome thread!

A few opinions:

A lot of "mature" buck hunters don't have a clue of the age of the buck they killed or are hunting.

If you have endured "tag soup" 2 or more years in a row you may want to rethink your goals. The heavy hitters on this site get it done, some with realigned goals, but they KILL"

Location, Location, Location !!!! Don't think you can kill what ain't there. And enjoy chasing what is.

The rarity of older deer is a lot more telling than the "intelligence". All deer gain experiences at different rates. That along with their genetic make up is what makes them "smart", but it's the percentage of age class availability that that really limits our success.

Time to have "drive" is probably more the crux of it for most of us. Being a poor college kid was a great time to learn what is most important on many fronts. It really proves that time is more important than money when it comes to pursuing our passions. It really tests your will. In later years we have more money, but the priorities have changed for most of us.

[magicman54494]

Another thought about older bucks.
I've often wondered if the personality is the number one reason that a few deer get old. Every deer has a personality and if that personality lends them to be a home body and maybe not as aggressive during the rut his chances to survive go way up. Factor that personality in with a bit of age and that deer would be very tough to kill.

[VA5326]

As you stated. I hunt mature bucks because I enjoy the challenge of hunting a wise/smart animal and also for the fact that I love being in the woods. I hold the standard strictly and pass a lot more than I shoot. Some guys like to golf (I hate golf btw), some guys like dirt bikes, and some guys like other things. Me, I like hunting Mature bucks.

[dan]

The biggest reason I want to hunt mature bucks is because gennerally they are the biggest racked, and often the biggest bodied deer in the woods. Why would anyone choose not to go after the biggest and best?