The first big buck hunters

[adrenalin]

Do you ever wonder why some of the big name guys who cut their teeth hunting the same lands we all do, don't any more? It seems everyone on tv or that made a name for themself hunts with outfitters or bought a ton of land for themselves to hunt, and grows big deer to shoot. Yet 20- 30 years ago these same guys were killing bigger bucks than everyone else on a regular basis when hunting big bucks wasn't nearly as popular. These guys were using tactic others hadn't thought or heard of yet. It's almost like the " you gotta shoot only big bucks" has gotten to these guys too, but on a much higher level. We're all here because we know guys like Dan have a talent most people don't. If Dan got rich and bought all kinds of land to grow big bucks or started doing TV shows with outfitters I don't think this site would even exist anymore. The few guys on TV that actually know how to hunt real life situations are dissapearing all together. I guess shooting the biggest bucks has taken priority over roots, the satisfaction of a hard earned 130 class public land buck doesn't mean nearly as much as a booner shot at an outfitter or on their buck factory high dollar private land.

[BigHunt]

Do you ever wonder why some of the big name guys who cut their teeth hunting the same lands we all do, don't any more? It seems everyone on tv or that made a name for themself hunts with outfitters or bought a ton of land for themselves to hunt, and grows big deer to shoot. Yet 20- 30 years ago these same guys were killing bigger bucks than everyone else on a regular basis when hunting big bucks wasn't nearly as popular. These guys were using tactic others hadn't thought or heard of yet. It's almost like the " you gotta shoot only big bucks" has gotten to these guys too, but on a much higher level. We're all here because we know guys like Dan have a talent most people don't. . The few guys on TV that actually know how to hunt real life situations are dissapearing all together. I guess shooting the biggest bucks has taken priority over roots, the satisfaction of a hard earned 130 class public land buck doesn't mean nearly as much as a booner shot at an outfitter or on their buck factory high dollar private land.

If Dan got rich and bought all kinds of land to grow big bucks or started doing TV shows with outfitters I don't think this site would even exist anymore

how is this why wouldnt they be here

[Stanley]

Do you ever wonder why some of the big name guys who cut their teeth hunting the same lands we all do, don't any more? It seems everyone on tv or that made a name for themself hunts with outfitters or bought a ton of land for themselves to hunt, and grows big deer to shoot. Yet 20- 30 years ago these same guys were killing bigger bucks than everyone else on a regular basis when hunting big bucks wasn't nearly as popular. These guys were using tactic others hadn't thought or heard of yet. It's almost like the " you gotta shoot only big bucks" has gotten to these guys too, but on a much higher level. We're all here because we know guys like Dan have a talent most people don't. If Dan got rich and bought all kinds of land to grow big bucks or started doing TV shows with outfitters I don't think this site would even exist anymore. The few guys on TV that actually know how to hunt real life situations are dissapearing all together. I guess shooting the biggest bucks has taken priority over roots, the satisfaction of a hard earned 130 class public land buck doesn't mean nearly as much as a booner shot at an outfitter or on their buck factory high dollar private land.

Could you name a few of these old time big name hunters that don't hunt anymore?

[adrenalin]

Do you ever wonder why some of the big name guys who cut their teeth hunting the same lands we all do, don't any more? It seems everyone on tv or that made a name for themself hunts with outfitters or bought a ton of land for themselves to hunt, and grows big deer to shoot. Yet 20- 30 years ago these same guys were killing bigger bucks than everyone else on a regular basis when hunting big bucks wasn't nearly as popular. These guys were using tactic others hadn't thought or heard of yet. It's almost like the " you gotta shoot only big bucks" has gotten to these guys too, but on a much higher level. We're all here because we know guys like Dan have a talent most people don't. If Dan got rich and bought all kinds of land to grow big bucks or started doing TV shows with outfitters I don't think this site would even exist anymore. The few guys on TV that actually know how to hunt real life situations are dissapearing all together. I guess shooting the biggest bucks has taken priority over roots, the satisfaction of a hard earned 130 class public land buck doesn't mean nearly as much as a booner shot at an outfitter or on their buck factory high dollar private land.

Could you name a few of these old time big name hunters that don't hunt anymore?

One guy that is from Wisconsin that comes to mind is Greg Miller. He was killing big bucks in Northern Wisconsin in the big woods in the 70's and now all his shows are with outfitters. If you read his book on big woods hunting he sounds passionate about all those bucks he shot. If you watch his show now every hunt is with an outfitter. If you had the skills to get it done then why stop now?

[adrenalin]

Do you ever wonder why some of the big name guys who cut their teeth hunting the same lands we all do, don't any more? It seems everyone on tv or that made a name for themself hunts with outfitters or bought a ton of land for themselves to hunt, and grows big deer to shoot. Yet 20- 30 years ago these same guys were killing bigger bucks than everyone else on a regular basis when hunting big bucks wasn't nearly as popular. These guys were using tactic others hadn't thought or heard of yet. It's almost like the " you gotta shoot only big bucks" has gotten to these guys too, but on a much higher level. We're all here because we know guys like Dan have a talent most people don't. . The few guys on TV that actually know how to hunt real life situations are dissapearing all together. I guess shooting the biggest bucks has taken priority over roots, the satisfaction of a hard earned 130 class public land buck doesn't mean nearly as much as a booner shot at an outfitter or on their buck factory high dollar private land.

If Dan got rich and bought all kinds of land to grow big bucks or started doing TV shows with outfitters I don't think this site would even exist anymore

how is this why wouldnt they be here

Well I think most guys are interested in this site cuz of the avearge guy being able to get it done without outfitters or an undiposable income buying the best land available. I don't think people would have an interest in this site if Dan only hunted with outfitters. It would be like going to the buckmasters site for info. For me I can relate to someone with similar hunting conditions.

[goldtip5575]

Could you name a few of these old time big name hunters that don't hunt anymore?[/quote]
One guy that is from Wisconsin that comes to mind is Greg Miller. He was killing big bucks in Northern Wisconsin in the big woods in the 70's and now all his shows are with outfitters. If you read his book on big woods hunting he sounds passionate about all those bucks he shot. If you watch his show now every hunt is with an outfitter. If you had the skills to get it done then why stop now?[/quote]
2 years ago at the WI deer and turkey expo Greg Miller pretty much ripped on WI DNR policies and said he didnt care to hunt WI anymore.Pressure to produce big bucks on film is why they have gone to outfitters.Way easier with an outfitter.

[dan]

what I think it boils down is the reason they are hunting... Passion vs money... If its to make a living, killing lots of big deer is what makes them money. When you appear on national TV shows you need to kill deer on film to keep the show alive and there is a lot of pressure to do so... If you look back at your example, Greg Miller, he seemed to try and stick with public land a little when he 1st started getting big, but he started shooting bucks every year and they were a lot smaller, and he got a lot of heat for that. I think that depending on the free hunts and shooting lots of big deer is making money for him... More than he would make if he were struggling on public land.
Andrae is another example... He don't, and won't, hunt with an outfitter, but he does manage and grow bucks on his propertys. He cut his teeth on public land hunting up in Antigo Wisconsin. I tried to get him to go up there and rekindle that public spirit last September but couldn't talk him into it. For him its more about hunting giant world class bucks and breaking records... To each there own. If I had his money I would likely buy a huge farm too. I don't know if I could totally quit hunting public, but I do know that I don't want an outfitter telling me what tree to hunt out of.

[lavazhole]

Why do they hunt with outfitters?

I think it is obvious and hasn't been mentioned....efficiency. They HAVE to get at least one or two big bucks down in a season. Some states that produce giants you have to draw in. They only have a limited number weeks in a year so they have to make the best use of their time and they HAVE to get a kill. Me and you can eat tag soup for a year (I have on my buck tag for almost 3 years passing on <140" deer) but this is NOT an option for them. What is the best use of their time? Let someone else put in the 100's of hours of work on the bucks and show up to kill them. Why don't you make your own arrows, grow your own food, etc. It's all about efficiency!

It is a business for them plain and simple!!! I'd do the same.

[adrenalin]

I bet if Extreme Whitetail Tactics was on the outdoor channel more guys would watch that than Bone Collectors. The average guy want to kill bigger bucks and will buy all sorts of crap to try to get it done. This is because that is the only thing they can relate to from the shows they watch, they can't hunt the outfitters the TV guys do, but they can buy the crap they promote. Now if Dans show taught the average guy how to kill big bucks on average land, I'll bet guys would much rather see that than one giant killed after another.

[Bowhunting Brian]

I never hear about Myles Keller or Doug Below anymore.

[goldtip5575]

what I think it boils down is the reason they are hunting... Passion vs money... If its to make a living, killing lots of big deer is what makes them money. When you appear on national TV shows you need to kill deer on film to keep the show alive and there is a lot of pressure to do so... If you look back at your example, Greg Miller, he seemed to try and stick with public land a little when he 1st started getting big, but he started shooting bucks every year and they were a lot smaller, and he got a lot of heat for that. I think that depending on the free hunts and shooting lots of big deer is making money for him... More than he would make if he were struggling on public land.
Andrae is another example... He don't, and won't, hunt with an outfitter, but he does manage and grow bucks on his propertys. He cut his teeth on public land hunting up in Antigo Wisconsin. I tried to get him to go up there and rekindle that public spirit last September but couldn't talk him into it. For him its more about hunting giant world class bucks and breaking records... To each there own. If I had his money I would likely buy a huge farm too. I don't know if I could totally quit hunting public, but I do know that I don't want an outfitter telling me what tree to hunt out of.

Dan do you think these outfitters are offering these Tv. hunters free or discounted hunts?Kind of a way to get there business some exposure to future clients.Almost as a form of free advertising.

[BCam]

I bet if Extreme Whitetail Tactics was on the outdoor channel more guys would watch that than Bone Collectors. The average guy want to kill bigger bucks and will buy all sorts of crap to try to get it done. This is because that is the only thing they can relate to from the shows they watch, they can't hunt the outfitters the TV guys do, but they can buy the crap they promote. Now if Dans show taught the average guy how to kill big bucks on average land, I'll bet guys would much rather see that than one giant killed after another.

i think people, for whatever reason and a whole diff. thread all together, would rather buy into the theories mainstream shows try to push other than the plain old common sense reality of hunting deer. I guess what i am trying to say is that they like to see and believe sitting in a random tree blowing on their grunt calls, rattling their horns and spraying doe pee on them selves is going to get results every time. Those people would probably never consider hunting if those shows actually were showing footage that 90% of whitetail hunters could relate to. It's just the time we live in i guess? Everybody wants to get rich quick.

[Dewey]

I never hear about Myles Keller or Doug Below anymore.

I was wondering the same thing about these guys. Myles should be getting up there in age by now.

As far as Greg Miller I talked to him a few years back in Green Bay at the Deer Classic and he said that the main reason he quit hunting WI is because baiting got way out of hand mainly up north. He said when all baiting is banned he will be back. As a matter of fact I believe he states the same thing in his book Bowhunting Forests & Deep Woods.

[Czabs]

[/quote]
i think people, for whatever reason and a whole diff. thread all together, would rather buy into the theories mainstream shows try to push other than the plain old common sense reality of hunting deer. I guess what i am trying to say is that they like to see and believe sitting in a random tree blowing on their grunt calls, rattling their horns and spraying doe pee on them selves is going to get results every time. Those people would probably never consider hunting if those shows actually were showing footage that 90% of whitetail hunters could relate to. It's just the time we live in i guess? Everybody wants to get rich quick.[/quote]

I 2nd that. I don't know why but everyone I talk to is like "dude have you seen the new Lee and Tiffany" or "dude Prime Time Bucks!" or "dude Drury brothers is the best!" I think most people just like watching people kill big bucks. Beats me why, I like to learn and relate. The killing part is just a bonus to watch for me!

To me there is 3 videos/dvd/shows I will watch White Knuckle Productions and Whitetails Inc., Whitetail Adrenaline (all public land), and Lonewolf/Hunting Beast/Extreme Whitetail Tactics.

[dan]

I never hear about Myles Keller or Doug Below anymore.

Last time I saw Miles was at a deer show in Minnesota about 7 years ago when he came over to say hi to Andrae, he was walking really bad and appeared to have back problems. I think he is just getting to dang old.