Dominant bucks

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JV NC
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Dominant bucks

Unread postby JV NC » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:31 am

I've always been of the mindset that "dominant buck" was dependent upon who is present. I don't buy into a lot of things I hear about them.

Just got through watching a hunting show where the successful bowhunter said that the buck he was holding was "obviously the dominant buck for the area".

How in the world do people make these assumptions, based on size/antler size/age alone? I'm sure all those things (to a point) have something to do with dominance. But, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the dominant buck in some of the areas I hunt was a 2.5yo with maybe not the biggest rack (but a gnarly attitude!). And, if he's not present, the pecking order is decided by who IS (present).

Someone who's more versed on buck dominance....tell me what's true and what's pure conjecture.

And, as hunters.....should we even care about buck dominance?


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Stanley
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:21 am

The really older mature bucks aren't the dominant bucks they are too inactive for this to happen. There is definitely a pecking order when it comes to breeding rights. A 140 lb 1.5 year old isn't going to push a 250 lbs 3 year old away from a doe in heat. But a 285 lbs 4 year old will. I use the term breeder buck rather than dominant buck. If a larger older buck is with a doe and smaller bucks come sniffing he will keep them chased off. Now if a larger heavier buck comes along he'll take that doe in heat from the lesser buck. I have witnessed this many times through the years. An area may have many breeder bucks or just a few. Buck fights are between breeder bucks of equal stature, the winner being the biggest and heaviest in most cases. I watched a buck fight a couple of years ago. Bucks were going at it hard. Lasted for about 5 minutes. Both bucks were physically exhausted both 10 pointers and both had busted up racks when they were done. Both came by me at twenty yard and I passed both of them because their racks were smashed up.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Bucky » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:01 pm

I have seen many of the same things as Stan. Sometimes a more "dominant" deer will lock down a certain area as well (hot food source or doe bedding area). I think a recent episode of MidWest Whitetail portrayed this well... a big buck with a less desireable scoring rack was ruling a certain active doe feeding area. He was the only deer showing up on a food plot edge scrape and when other subordinate bucks would show up on that particular food source he would run them off... I believe in order to see this dynamic you have to be hunting in an area that has a fair # of bucks and competition.... which is not the norm in most places.
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:07 pm

I relate back to other aniamls and /or human nature for alot of hype about "habits" deer are proclaimed to be...
Much to much emphasis is put on "every" deer and they all act alike or weigh the same, score this - score that, blah-blah-blah - I think some of its just hogwash!

Does every dog fight or will every human fight - no they won't...
Every walk of life has it's passive individuals.
Now I'm not saying in a life or death situation these individuals won't fight for survival because that instinct will surely take over,
but I believe some deer will wait their turn and pick their interaction wisely.

I had a series of bucks on camera last winter and their was one buck in particular that seemed to spar and pick a fight with 5 or 6 others he wasn't the biggest,
but I bet he was the most aggressive and probably won a few more Doe's over this past breeding season just on his demeanor alone, meaning pushing other bucks away because he was mean
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby JV NC » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:13 pm

^^I'm buying every bit of that.
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Brad » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:17 pm

I agree 100& with Stan, he pretty much summed up exactly how I think and feel.
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:40 pm

Edcyclopedia wrote:I relate back to other aniamls and /or human nature for alot of hype about "habits" deer are proclaimed to be...
Much to much emphasis is put on "every" deer and they all act alike or weigh the same, score this - score that, blah-blah-blah - I think some of its just hogwash!

Does every dog fight or will every human fight - no they won't...
Every walk of life has it's passive individuals.
Now I'm not saying in a life or death situation these individuals won't fight for survival because that instinct will surely take over,
but I believe some deer will wait their turn and pick their interaction wisely.

I had a series of bucks on camera last winter and their was one buck in particular that seemed to spar and pick a fight with 5 or 6 others he wasn't the biggest,
but I bet he was the most aggressive and probably won a few more Doe's over this past breeding season just on his demeanor alone, meaning pushing other bucks away because he was mean


I agree Ed. I have also seen bucks that were running other bucks away from a doe and were too exhausted to hold the doe after breeding her.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:44 pm

I had at least a half dozen fights on trail camera this year. This is why I use cameras they can give you some great stuff to look at. This was my first fight ever with 3 bucks involved on trail camera.


Image
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:56 pm

Stanley wrote:I had at least a half dozen fights on trail camera this year. This is why I use cameras they can give you some great stuff to look at. This was my first fight ever with 3 bucks involved on trail camera.


Image


Yeah I remeber this pic from a few weeks back - I like it. Have you considered blowing up the bucks and framing it - kind of cool?
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby dan » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:15 pm

JV NC wrote:I've always been of the mindset that "dominant buck" was dependent upon who is present. I don't buy into a lot of things I hear about them.

Just got through watching a hunting show where the successful bowhunter said that the buck he was holding was "obviously the dominant buck for the area".

How in the world do people make these assumptions, based on size/antler size/age alone? I'm sure all those things (to a point) have something to do with dominance. But, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the dominant buck in some of the areas I hunt was a 2.5yo with maybe not the biggest rack (but a gnarly attitude!). And, if he's not present, the pecking order is decided by who IS (present).

Someone who's more versed on buck dominance....tell me what's true and what's pure conjecture.

And, as hunters.....should we even care about buck dominance?

I think the only way this guy could of known if the buck was Dominant would be to observe his actions with other deer several times...
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Schultzy » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:28 pm

It seems for the most part that the dominant buck In my woods usually Is the buck that weighs the most. I've got many pictures of sparring matches In late October. Whenever the 4.5 year old 8 point would show up by the sparring matches the others wanted nothing of It or didn't want to play along with him much. 2 of the 5 other bucks sparring were decent 2.5's but backed down as soon as the 4 year old started playing.
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Zap » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:08 pm

Chit like that sounds good for TV......
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:37 pm

Edcyclopedia wrote:
Stanley wrote:I had at least a half dozen fights on trail camera this year. This is why I use cameras they can give you some great stuff to look at. This was my first fight ever with 3 bucks involved on trail camera.




Yeah I remeber this pic from a few weeks back - I like it. Have you considered blowing up the bucks and framing it - kind of cool?

I have my trail cameras set on low resolution so I can get more pictures on a card (1 GB). They are very grainy when blown up. I only check the cameras about every 6-8 weeks. I can collect more accurate intel on undisturbed setups. I do like the picture. Very rare for sure.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby rudy78 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:10 pm

I think it has much or more to do with attitude as rack size, body size or age. I think the buck I killed this year was the dominant buck in the area for a couple reasons, first off his rack was all broke up (brow, G4 & end of beam), his body was all beat up, whenever we saw him we didn't see any other bucks around, he was in the prime area for does & he was an older deer, so based on that I would say he was the dominant buck of the area. After I killed him we saw a bunch of 3.5 or older deer around & only saw 1 before I shot him.

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Re: Dominant bucks

Unread postby JV NC » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:58 pm

So the truth is.....unless we see it with our own eyes....then....we still don't know (if a buck is the dominant buck for an area).

Do we know EVERY buck in the area?

In a hunting aspect, it's not important to me (dominance). I've seen bucks spar, here. Fight? Not so much. Even still, that just shows who's dominant......that's PRESENT.

Dominant buck means one thing to me, really.....he gets to sleep where he wants to. That might be more important to us than anything (preferred buck bedding area). But, as long as we know a "good buck" is in there.....I don't see why.
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