de-Bunking the myth. (void above the lungs)

[Arrowbender]

Although I really never believed that there was an area above the lungs that would allow a BH to pass through without being lethal;I have now proven (at least to myself) that this is total BS.

The WI buck I killed this year was hit in the high thoracic cavity. In fact the BH grazed the bottom of the backbone tissue. The autopsy showed that both lungs were passed through. But the key piece of evidence is that although the BH lacerated the backbone tissue, both lungs were popped well below the top of their respective lobes.

If you take the time the next time you have a deer hanging to look inside the cavity forward of the diaphragm, you will notice that the ribcage on both sides of the spine provide a good measure of volume above the lower line of the backbone structure. I believe that the punctured lungs on my buck prove that there is NO WAY possible to put an arrow through there without doing lethal damage.
In Fact; my buck did a heart shot kick when hit and died within 30 yds of impact. I think this is due to the artery that runs between the lungs just below the spine being severed.

I hope this helps to dispel this notion of a void.

[GRFox]

Void doesn't exist. On a dead deer yes. But on a live deer when the lungs are inflated and all of the organs are functional there is no way to sneak pass the lung, will a deer live through a really high shot where the "void" is believed to be? Yes, from what I understand, a deer can recover from nicked or sliced lungs, not a complete pass through through both lungs, but a nick.

[ Post made via Android ]

[dan]

I think most people who claim to have put an arrow thru "the void" really shot over the spine thru the straps.

[bowhunter15]

I think most people who claim to have put an arrow thru "the void" really shot over the spine thru the straps.

I have always held this belief as well. The actual spinal cord sits lower than a lot of people think.

[cornfedkiller]

I think most people who claim to have put an arrow thru "the void" really shot over the spine thru the straps.

I have always held this belief as well. The actual spinal cord sits lower than a lot of people think.

Exactly.. Deer have really long spinous processes that stick up off their vertebrae, and the actual spine itself sits down pretty low.. And as mentioned, in a living deer, the lungs are tight against the walls of the entire chest cavity... That's how lungs inflate when we (deer) take a breath in..

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Spysar]

I hate it when people claim "Void"!! There is no void!!

[BigHunt]

cool pics spy thanks for sharing

[Schultzy]

I think most people who claim to have put an arrow thru "the void" really shot over the spine thru the straps.

Right on Dan!!

[GRUD]

I agree that when hit high the arrow goes through the backstraps. I shot a doe that way this year and didnt find her. There is a lot of space above the spine like the photos show. Last year I hit one high but a little further back and she died quick. The curvature of the spine above the shoulders is what is deceiving.

[tim]

thays the best photo ive seen for demonstrating this spy. excellent

[Brandon]

I think most people who claim to have put an arrow thru "the void" really shot over the spine thru the straps.

thats the truth!

most guys dont realize how LOW the spine runs on a deer... and how BIG backstraps are.

I always thought it was the guys who never butchered there own deer....

[rudy78]

I would agree with you guys and think most people hit above the spinal cord & think they hit the void.

I will say though you are assuming the lungs are inflated when you shoot & if they are deflated they are considerably smaller. I was astounded this year when I got to my buck and didn't see any blood from his mouth which got me wondering if i hit his lungs at all. So when I cut him open we looked carefully & I didn't hit the lungs at all, I went through right where the lungs meet the heart, but didn't hit the lungs. If you were to show me the entry & exit holes and tell me I didn't hit any of the lung I would lay a $100 bill that i did. Well I didn't, my entry was a little behind his shoulder and exit was out the middle of the leg bone right where it meets the shoulder, he was quartering away a little & I had a pretty good angle down, but still I would have thought for-sure I would have center punched the near lung. The only thing I can think is that his lungs were deflated when I shot and that is why i went just under where it was when I shot???

[futuredoc]

So I'm going to weigh-in on this one. I take care of people not deer, but I'm pretty sure that the lungs function in a similar manner. The lungs are connected to the chest wall by a theoretical space where the pleura (lining of the lung) meets the lining of the chest wall so to speak. When either the diaphram or the chest wall expands/contracts the lungs move with them and cause air to go in or out. the only way I can think of to put an arrow through the thoracic cavity, inside the rib cage, and NOT hit the lung in some capacity is to shoot down between the lungs which would hit the heart and still kill the animal. When talking about an arrow hitting the animal the extent of the damage and the lethality of the hit will be determined by how much we alter the physiology that keeps the animal alive: destoying the lungs and causing bilateral pnuemothoraces (broadside double lung) kills very quickly and causes massive blood loss. Cutting the great vessels where they exit the heart or the heart itself also causes massive blood loss and is the reason why when you hit a deer a little bit "forward" or just above the elbow you often see blood sprayed over every tree the animal runs by. Either way, a hit the "nicks" tissue only causes as much damage as the blade of the broadhead can inflict, hence the importance of shooting with intent of destroying an organ system and causing maximal damage which necessitates an analysis of the angle you are shooting and what vital organs you are going to "take out." We've all seen the lethality of a well-placed arrow.

I tell you what bugs me is people saying I hit him perfect, double lunged him and we tracked him for a mile. Obviously you didn't hit it perfect. I make bad shot, you make bad shot, we all make bad shots from time to time. I'm amazed that I can spend so much time scouting and waiting on an animal and then when the shot comes I am so quick to get the arrow in the air that I don't take the time to really analyze the shot.

Kendall

[cornfedkiller]

I will say though you are assuming the lungs are inflated when you shoot & if they are deflated they are considerably smaller......The only thing I can think is that his lungs were deflated when I shot and that is why i went just under where it was when I shot???

Im sure there are freak instances like yours that occur every once in awhile, but people also have to remember that the lungs never pull away from the walls of the thoracic cavity when we are breathing (under normal circumstances) - They do not deflate and shrivel up like you let the air out of a balloon. The negative pressure in the thorax keeps the lung tight against the chest cavity. When the thoracic cavity is punctured, it allows the air inside the cavity to normalize with the outside of the body and causes pneumothorax.

Here is a decent animation showing what Im talking about..

[bbvideo=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc2MmhkUW_E&feature=related[/bbvideo]

Also, I dont know exactly how the volume of deer's lungs compare to a human's, but they probably arent a TON different - and the average inspiratory/expiratory (tidal) volume is only about a half liter, which isnt a whole lot more than a can of pop..so thats all the bigger/smaller your lungs are getting with each breath in and out..

[Brandon]

I think we have the most knowledgable hunters on the internet here on this site....

ANY other forum and you would have numerous responses from guys who would swear there was a void becasuse "i hit him perfect".

Every single response was very well put and I am happy to be a member on threads like this.

This is about the 2nd or 3rd thread in recent memory that would have been a full blow out argument on any of the other sites,... yet our members keep it clean.

Thanks Guys!