$28,000.00 fine? Really?

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Should Arlie Risner be fined $28,000.00

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NO
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Total votes: 33
dan
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$28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby dan » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:58 am

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Bellevue
A few years ago, a hunter cited for breaking the law would pay $400 in restitution per deer.

The price tag has since bounded to more than $27,000.

A Bellevue hunter is facing a record $27,851.33 bill for the large buck he shot with his bow last year in the Willard area.

Lifelong hunter Arlie Risner, 58, believes he has nothing to be ashamed of.

He says he pleaded no contest to a charge of hunting without permission because his lawyer convinced him it was an inexpensive way to take care of a citation from the Division of Wildlife.

He paid a fine of more than $300, but figured that when a year’s probation expired, that would be it and he could get back to hunting and fishing.

Risner said he was stunned when he got a letter demanding $27,851.33 in restitution from the ODNR. He can’t hunt or fish in Ohio until he pays, and if he doesn’t cover the bill, he could face a collections lawsuit from the attorney general’s office.

“I’ve never been in trouble in my life,” Risner said. “I don’t think I’ve even done anything wrong.”

The hunting story

Risner’s deer hunting woes date back to Nov. 10, 2010, when he says he went bow hunting on property owned by his cousin, Marcella Handshoe, along Town Line Road No. 12 in Willard. He hit a large buck with his arrow.

“I hit it good,” Risner said.

He saw the deer leap away, losing the arrow sticking out of its neck.

The licensed hunter followed the buck’s blood trail to CSX Railroad property and found the animal where it had dropped. He tagged it, entering the proper information, and took it to officially check in at a Shelby hunting store.

On Nov. 14, a game warden showed up at Risner’s house, saying Risner had been turned in for hunting on railroad property. Risner said he tried to show the game warden where he’d hit the buck, but his cousin had cut the grass, removing the blood trail.

Handshoe said her cousin did nothing wrong.

“He was on my land and he had permission,” said Handshoe, who said she showed Division of Wildlife agents the trees where Risner took cover when he shot the deer. “I am so upset over this whole issue.”

“I know him as well as I do my brothers,” Handshoe said. “Arlie has always been an honest person. I have never heard anything bad about him.”

Arlie said he did what any hunter would do — follow the deer he wounded and harvest it.

The Division of Wildlife investigator who handled Risner’s case, however, said that there was evidence Risner broke the law.

Jeff Collingwood, wildlife investigator for the division’s office in Findlay, said he was sure of Risner’s guilt. If he wasn’t “100 percent certain,” he would not have sought charges, Collingwood said.

“There’s a fence that separates it,” Collingwood said of the property line.

He said officers found gouge marks from a tree stand on a tree on CSX property that the officer accused Risner of climbing, and found deer bait nearby, within bow shot of the tree stand.

Wildlife officers also found deer guts on railroad property and linked it to Risner’s deer using DNA. A blood trail was found on railroad property, but no blood trail could be seen on Handshoe’s property, Collingwood said.

Risner maintains that he didn’t know he’d set foot on CSX property and said there’s no way he could have scaled the tree Collingwood said he did. Why? Because he’d recently had surgery for colon cancer and there’s no way for him to climb a tree like the one that had marks in it.

Clearly, Risner said, someone else had scaled that tree and put the bait out.

Ken Fitz, law enforcement program administrator for the Division of Wildlife, said it’s irrelevant under the law where Risner shot the deer. If he claimed it on property where he didn’t have permission to hunt, it’s still a violation of the law.

Risner pleaded no contest — technically not an admission of guilt — on Feb. 23 and paid his court fine. The ODNR confiscated both the antlers and the meat.

Model citizen

Deputy Steve Hammersmith, a 26-year veteran of the Erie County Sheriff’s office, lived next to Risner for about 10 years.

Hammersmith said he knows nothing about Risner’s legal problems and said it wouldn’t be proper for him to get involved, but said Risner was an “ideal neighbor.”

“He was the type of individual who did things without asking,” Hammersmith said. “I never encountered him being a bad individual.”

Risner said he does not believe he did anything wrong and doesn’t consider himself a poacher. He doesn’t like poachers, he said, and would never be one.

“I’m probably never going to hunt again,” he said. “It’s just been a really bad experience for me.”

There’s no other record of wildlife violations by Risner.

Fitz confirms that the 2010 charge is the only one in ODNR’s records.

Collingwood worked for 10 years as a wildlife officer in Huron County and has been an investigator for two years. He said that in those 12 years, he never had any dealings with Risner. If there had been an arrest or complaints about Risner, “I would have known about it,” he said.

Collingwood is the Monroeville High School assistant football coach who was fired from his coaching job last month because he failed to report a student violation of the athletic code of conduct.

$27,851.33 deer

Risner thought his case was over, but at the end of April, he got a registered letter from ODNR asking for more than $27,000 in restitution.

Surprised, Risner called up his lawyer, Neil McKown of Shelby, who Risner says didn’t realize his client would be facing the additional fine. McKown did not return phone calls seeking comment.

Fitz remembers the restitution letter.

“I wrote the letter,” he said.

Fitz explained that the department had no leeway in setting the restitution, but had to follow guidelines in a 2007 state law, Ohio Revised Code 1531.201, that sets high restitution for valuable animals. Before the new law, restitution for deer was $400 an animal.

The new law recognizes that killing a large buck can be lucrative. Risner’s unusually large animal therefore drew the $27,851.33 restitution, the largest levied since the new law. The next-largest so far is $23,816.

Collingwood said under the scoring system used for deer, the antlers for Risner’s buck measured 228 inches.

“We rarely see anything higher than 160,” he said. More than 200 is considered world class, he said.

A hunter landing a buck that large can make thousands of dollars selling it to a store such as Bass Pro Shop, and could make money to endorse the bow or clothes or other tools he used to land it.

Risner said he had no interest in the antlers or trophy animals in general. He said he simply hunted for the meat, which is particularly good for his digestion following his bout with cancer.

State officials have taken no action yet to collect Risner’s restitution. At some point, they could ask the attorney general to collect it, Fitz said. That’s the step where Risner could attempt to make some kind of deal.

Risner said he can’t afford the $27,000 fine, especially after all of his expensive medical bills. He instead plans to fight the ODNR, which he claims has too much power.

The deer law

State records show that the bill that hiked the restitution fees, Ohio House Bill, was authored by Bob Latta, then a state lawmaker and now a Congressman who represents Huron County.

The bill passed the House 96-0 and the Senate 29-1 before it became law.

Before final passage, Latta proposed amendments to the bill that were approved 94-2. Only former state Rep. Chris Redfern, D-Catawba Island, and Rep. Lynn Wachtmann, R-Napoleon, voted no.
Redfern and Wachtmann did not respond to calls seeking comment.

Latta’s spokeswoman, Izzy Santa, said the intent of the law was to set up penalties to prevent poaching.
“He believed and he still believes he did not want illegal poaching,” she said. “The fees were there to prevent that behavior.”

Latta had no comment on the size of Risner’s restitution, she said.

State Rep. Dennis Murray Jr., D-Sandusky, said he’s not an expert on deer hunting but Risner’s big restitution sounds like an unintended result of the new law.

“I can’t imagine that the buck is worth $27,000,” he said.

Murray said it’s also “somewhat bothersome” Risner was convicted of anything — assuming Risner’s account is correct.

“If you’re just following the animal and it lays down where it lays down, what else are you supposed to do?” he said.


http://m.sanduskyregister.com/bellevue/ ... 27850-fine


Brad
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby Brad » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:03 pm

Wow!
Autumn Ninja
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby Autumn Ninja » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:39 pm

It's pretty easy to know if your on railroad property...they have a 60 foot easment...30 feet on each side.

I work for CSX....and its an outside source that must have something against Mr. Risner that got this going. The railroad does not give a dodo if anyone tresspasses...its all about there own liability in case you get hurt on there property.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby whitetail007 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:18 pm

does wisconsin have a law like this? hunting on someone elses property and harvesting a big buck? this would make trespassers think twice.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby GRFox » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:09 pm

That is probrably one of the most rediculous things I have ever read. I feel so bad for the guy. How could they have the right to confront him based on an acusation which would be completely circumstantial?

The guy did nothing wrong at all. I cant comprehend why they are going after this guy so relentlesly? a ticket and a court date is all the punishment he deserves.

I know guyts around here who have been caught in illegal hunting acts half a dozen times and they still have a liscence. its guys like that with prior records that deserve to be hammered.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:56 pm

Autumn Ninja wrote:It's pretty easy to know if your on railroad property...they have a 60 foot easment...30 feet on each side.

I work for CSX....and its an outside source that must have something against Mr. Risner that got this going. The railroad does not give a dodo if anyone tresspasses...its all about there own liability in case you get hurt on there property.

Maybe Mr. Risner did it and that is why he was turned in, but maybe the person that turned him in was the one actually hunting that tree and was PO'd about it. Either way that lawyer should be sued for not doing his job. He should have known what was going to happen.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby swamp-assassin » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:44 pm

whitetail007 wrote:does wisconsin have a law like this? hunting on someone elses property and harvesting a big buck? this would make trespassers think twice.


The law in wisconsin is that you do not need permission to go on someone elses property to harvest your animal if it ran off and crossed property lines. its either that or that the landowner must give you permision...if not you can call the dnr and have them escort you to your animal....i like that because lets face it...quite a few landowners are real you know whats..just look at this situation...

I am extremely angry about what i just read. :angry-steamingears: ..even if he did do it, the punishment does not fit the crime......i can see 1000 bucks and one year forfieture of license but that is absolute insanity!!! who gets that money!!! the dnr??????? like they dont already have enough taxpayer dollars? how does that fit into the budget???? does the dnr or the state make a profit!!!???? how long has the state of ohio been in BUSINESS!!?????

I also have my doubts about the dnrs story....and the number one reason is i have a very hard time believing that a buck of that caliber came in to a bait pile in broad daylight!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rofl:
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby Stanley » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:33 pm

:shock:
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:07 pm

I think basing the restitution on the B&C score for trophy class bucks was a brilliant idea. Bucks of that size sell for 10's of thousands of dollars. It's a big money black market business. A $1,000 fine would just be considered the cost of doing business for poachers and a revocation of hunting privilege's wouldn't mean jack diddly to them. I wish we had the same law here.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby BowtechHunting » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:57 pm

I can't believe that...I'm in shock, if the story is true. If it had been a doe, no one would have raised a finger. But like DEERSLAYER said, someone else was hunting the deer with bait, and it just so happened the deer went that direction and piled up there. The other guy found out that he killed the big buck and turned him to get even with him! I always ask myself this, WHY is just a buck, yes he was a monster, yes he could've made a lot of money with it, but in the end its just a deer, and there is 45 million other deer out there. I hope Mr. Risner gets out of this, that's not right. That's the problem, there is too many people put there nose in schit where it doesn't belong. Unbelievable.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby dan » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:58 pm

The law in wisconsin is that you do not need permission to go on someone elses property to harvest your animal if it ran off and crossed property lines. its either that or that the landowner must give you permision...if not you can call the dnr and have them escort you to your animal....i like that because lets face it...quite a few landowners are real you know whats..just look at this situation...

This is wrong... In Wisconsin you MUST have landowner permission to get your animal, and not even a DNR warden can get it for you. I have been in situations like this and know the law pretty good. The only way the warden can get the buck is if it was taken illeagly.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby BowtechHunting » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:58 am

dan wrote:
The law in wisconsin is that you do not need permission to go on someone elses property to harvest your animal if it ran off and crossed property lines. its either that or that the landowner must give you permision...if not you can call the dnr and have them escort you to your animal....i like that because lets face it...quite a few landowners are real you know whats..just look at this situation...

This is wrong... In Wisconsin you MUST have landowner permission to get your animal, and not even a DNR warden can get it for you. I have been in situations like this and know the law pretty good. The only way the warden can get the buck is if it was taken illeagly.



I believe that is true for every state, or at least it should be I suppose. It is in KY. If people practice it or not is another story. If it's on city or state property, who cares. Trying to get in contact with someone about getting permission to access the land in the city or state, in this case the railroad, would take weeks. I would've done the same thing.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby Bowhunting Brian » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:57 am

I didn't read anything that shows positively 100% proof that he shot the deer on private land. anyone else could have put that bait pile out and scarred that tree with a tree stand.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby BCam » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:39 pm

It is shame that this guy was mis-informed the way he was, if this is truly the case. I think the fine is a joke since the guy appears to have no negative history with the DNR or the law period for that matter.
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Re: $28,000.00 fine? Really?

Unread postby virginiashadow » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:45 pm

So the state of Ohio just made up the number $28,000 based on iffa coulda woulda shoulda on how much the guy could have sold the rack for? The fine is absurd. How much is a persons first DUI fine? Maybe $500? How much is the fine for a dirtbag who wastes our tax payers dollars for a YEAR in prison worth?.....well I know the answer and it is right around 28k. WOW>


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