First recurve deer, zero blood, thoughts?

[SamPotter]

I shot a doe Saturday evening from the ground at less than 10 yards. I was set up in the corner of a standing bean field with a 2D Montana buck decoy in front of me at 14 yards. This doe came right along the field edge to inspect the deke and was subsequently right in my lap. She never noticed me standing there at full draw in a ghillie top.
At the shot, she took off with another doe and a fawn to a higher spot in the field and I lost sight of them. There was such an explosion of deer when I shot that I couldn’t hear if the arrow hit and I didn’t see it either, but I was sure there was no way I’d missed. Plus the way she ran flat through the beans while the other 2 deer bounded made me more confident.
However, when I started looking for blood or my arrow with my headlamp, I found neither. I ended up zig zagging up through where I’d last seen them, all the while looking for any clue in the waist high beans. I was amazed by how many beds I found out in the beans though.

I circled back to where she had been standing and again searched to no avail for blood or arrow. Again I zig zagged back up to where I last saw them, and by pure chance I stumbled upon the dead doe, 70 yards or so from where I’d shot her. I would’ve seen her fall if I’d been up in a tree for sure.
What puzzles me and concerns me was the total lack of blood, even in her death bed. I am shooting a 45# Samick Sage with a 500 spine arrow tipped with a 125gr 2 blade Magnus Stinger. I had a complete pass through and got both lungs just above the heart.
I’m used to having a nice blood trail to follow and would rather not have to do a grid search every time. What’s the issue? I realize most of the blood would have stayed inside the chest cavity because the shot was a little high (both the entry and exit were halfway up the chest, right behind the shoulder). Is it broadhead sharpness? Cutting diameter? Bad luck?

[PK_]

Which head? Does it have bleeder blades? (Edit: sorry just saw magnus stinger)

I am about to give up on 2 blades that don’t have bleeders. I have shot 4 animals with them all through the lungs and very few drops of blood all trails combined. If the animal dies in thick nasty it becomes quite the chore to find without blood.

[SamPotter]

Which head? Does it have bleeder blades? (Edit: sorry just saw magnus stinger)

I am about to give up on 2 blades that don’t have bleeders. I have shot 4 animals with them all through the lungs and very few drops of blood all trails combined. If the animal dies in thick nasty it becomes quite the chore to find without blood.

Hmmm. I guess what I experienced is not an anomaly. Penetration certainly wasn’t an issue, so maybe I should switch to something with bleeders as well or a 3 blade?

[PK_]

Which head? Does it have bleeder blades? (Edit: sorry just saw magnus stinger)

I am about to give up on 2 blades that don’t have bleeders. I have shot 4 animals with them all through the lungs and very few drops of blood all trails combined. If the animal dies in thick nasty it becomes quite the chore to find without blood.

Hmmm. I guess what I experienced is not an anomaly. Penetration certainly wasn’t an issue, so maybe I should switch to something with bleeders as well or a 3 blade?

I am by no means an expert. Only switched to 2 blades last season.

Those stingers in 4 blade look pretty good. I have had good success with DRT for the price. I have never shot 3 blades, but the muzzy 4 blades have done ok for me. But I really like the 2 blades with bleeders so far.

[backstraps]

I have seen low or no blood trails from dull broadheads. Not saying that was your issue. I have tracked a lot of deer for others. Seems almost every time, weak blood trails, the shooter stated something about head had been shot into target etc

[stash59]

I think I remember reading long ago. Your very problem is why 2 blade heads went out of vogue for awhile, in our modern era of bowhunting. What I've read /seen lately on stone points is similar. With only 2 cutting sides, bloodtrails can be minimal. Especially at first.

With a 2 blade head if it enters parallel to the muscle tissue. The hole can close up easier. So on good vital shots in the ribs. If the broadhead basically hits parallel to the body/ground. The holes can close. Or the hide can cover the hole made in the muscle tissue. So until the blood fills the vital cavity and pressure from running pushes the blood out the holes. Not much blood hits the ground. Or it's actually spewed out of the mouth. Broadhead entry 90 degrees to the body are a little better, but problems with the hide closing the holes can still exist.

Adding another "blade" cuts the tissue in another direction. So the muscle or hide can't constrict back on itself, as much. Wider 2 blades are better, but you get to a point they don't fly all that well.

Scientists thought stone points, known as bird points. Which were under 1" wide, with many only 5/8". Were used on lesser game than deer. But DNA analysis has shown that these points were used on deer, bear and even elk. Modern tests using stone points. Showed that way better penetration is achieved with the narrower points, along with more accuracy. Especially with primitive type bows and arrows. Better penetration usually means double lung hits. Thus better recovery chances.

So centuries of stone point use, proves 2 blade heads are very efficient at killing. But we each need to decide if a better blood trail is what we want or not. Of course the primitive people were masters at tracking. With or without bloodtrails.

[Lockdown]

Stash brings up a good point about the direction of the muscle tissue. Seems to me every time I see a gaping hole from a 2 blade (often rage, NAP killzone) the cut is horizontal. There’s a lot of muscle behind the shoulder itself on the rib cage, and I’m pretty sure the muscle striations are vertical. Makes sense to me that, as long as I’m thinking correctly, the wound won’t close as easy when it cuts perpendicular to the striations vs parallel to them.

Are your entry and exits vertical or horizontal? Chances are they’re one of each, especially if your feathers put a decent spin on the arrow.

My first thought was skin stretch. I’ve seen multiple entries and exits get covered back up by their hide. It all depends how they’re standing. For example, if they’re curling around to itch their hind end and you shoot, I would about guarantee their hide moves and covers the hole. I remember one of my kills I had to pull the skin aside about an inch to get the hide and rib holes to line up. Didn’t have a good blood trail on that one either. I shoot fixed 3 blade.

I’ve also seen holes get plugged with fat.

[Lockdown]

The more muscle it goes through the more likely it is to seal back up. There’s a couple inches of meat and rib cage if you hit her shoulder and not just rib cage. Maybe it’s as simple as that.

And like you said, higher hits tend to not bleed as much externally.

[muddy]

Look into a good 3 blade. Lots of trad guys really like 3 bladers because of how the hole "peels" open. Very hard for a 3 blade hole to close even when the muscles get close to each other.

[Drenalin]

First deer I ever lost was a doe that I hit just a little above center body, so a touch high. Shot her from a stand and probably only got one lung. I only found very small and very sporadic droplets of blood for the 80 or so yards I was able to trail her. Blood was scarce and small enough that I was having to spray with peroxide to even find it/confirm it. I would think that even getting both lungs if they're hit a bit high then most of that blood is staying in the cavity. I was shooting an expandable, so number of blades wasn't the issue for me.

[Wannabelikedan]

1. You had an animal down in 70 yards. You can’t ask for much better than that using archery equipment.

2. You hit her a shade high and she very well may have dropped ever so much on the shot which you can’t control. Longer fill time on the chest cavity with a higher hit. Remember #1

3. It’s early season and everything is still tall and green. Blood is very tough to find when everything is tall and green. Compound that when you’re in a waist high bean field that is still green.

4. You wouldn’t have even worried about a blood trail had you saw her drop. But you were on the ground and that’s a common disadvantage of ground hunting is limited sight.

Conclusion: Bad luck considering you could not see her fall over in a bean field after an explosion of deer upon the shot. Shoot to kill. Don’t shoot for blood trails. Congrats on your first trad deer! Here’s a good video on blood trails.

https://youtu.be/MPofymZs7j0

[SamPotter]

As some mentioned above- the “skin stretch” definitely appeared to be a factor. The holes in the skin and the holes in the rib cage definitely did not line up. Forgot to mention also how much fat was on this deer. That probably didn’t help either. I’m sure that if I was shooting from an elevated position and had a lower exit hole on the opposite side I likely would have had some blood to follow.
I originally chose the 2 blade for penetration, which I got, but will have to look into either bleeders or more blades.
I will say this: shooting the recurve made practice fun again. I have to force myself to put it down rather than force myself to pick it up like the compound was getting to be. Plus, the majority of deer I’ve shot in the last 15 bow seasons haven been inside 20 yards, and I’m pretty sure more than half were inside 10.

[DaveT1963]

Yes it can happen with 2 blades. I shoot Simmons sharks and have never had it happen like I did with straight edge 2 blades.

[Jackson Marsh]

Congrats SP

[Eddiegomes83]

I would think it would have bled better from a treestand being that the exit would have been lower then the entry.
Maybe