Training a dog

[gjs4]

So I have a lab pup .... I have trained dogs for retrieving and pointers for upland...but am a bit lost on this one (having a tendency to make things way more complicated than necessary)... Any tips or tricks? are any of the videos or scents worth it? Started reading the mound of articles out there and noticing contradictions so I stopped..

Thanks guys

[kenn1320]

Ive never done this and have never been real good at training dogs. Seems to me the best way is to play fetch with a small shed antler? Throw the dogs favorite toy and get him retrieving that. Then throw a shed antler and see if he will retrieve that. Keep us posted, would be interesting to hear what worked for ya.

[Black Squirrel]

My son got a lab mixed pup. We are trying to train him to find antlers. He is 8 months old, and we are working on basic obidience right now. We are using treats to train him to do things, it is working real well so far. He will sit, stay, down, come, back, and fetch so far. We are going to start on antlers soon, we will use teats for this as well. You eventually wean them off the treats. You will get all kinds of advice on how to train a dog. So you just got to pick what you think will work for you. Our dog is food motivated and he gets things fast. He knows now that when he gets a treat he is training and really wants to learn.

[gjs4]

Nice- thanks guys.

Seems to be start with the basics....my concern was with what to do with the antlers...such as allowing them to use them as a toy, fetch vs find, scents, that rubber antler w scent they sell...etc....... I get so tripped up on being a consumer some times.....trying to be smart and see what works for others first.

[Zap]

Basicly the most common problems made in training a dog to find certain items are......

Trying to train the wrong dog.

Helping the dog too much.

Inadvertently training the dog to find "other" scents/items.








It's best to start with a qualified candadite.

Detection dogs need two "drives".
Retrive or play drive.
Hunting drive.

Ideal candadites will have tons of both drives.

Most dogs will chase and pick up a tennis ball but super retrieve drive dogs will chase and pick up hard objects. Ex....six inch piece of 3/4" pvc pipe or similar metal pipe. Piece of antler.....

Hunting drive.....
Hold dog.
Show dog its favorite toy.
Throw toy into tall grass.
Let dog go.
Ideal candadites will search for toy like a mad man....

Does not matter how quick the dog finds the toy, it matters how hard and long it searches.
A dog that goes over and takes a pee........has little hunting drive....

Pup's are best left to be pups......
Start serious work after 1-1.5 years of age.

Pieces of antler kept in a wire basket outside, out of dogs reach are good toys to play with and start the hunting thing with.
Best if the basket is kept in a place where the rain will wash the antlers.

Use rubber gloves when handeling toys to avoid inadvertently training the dog to find your scent.

Short fetch sessions with a pup are best, if he wants to keep the toy its OK.
Make it fun not a fight or disciple session.

Short sessions of tossing the toy into tall grass (6" or so) will help build hunting drive.
Make it easy for the dog to succeed to start out.
Example of easier: Hold dog and let it go AS you throw the toy.





Good luck.

[Black Squirrel]

Nice- thanks guys.

Seems to be start with the basics....my concern was with what to do with the antlers...such as allowing them to use them as a toy, fetch vs find, scents, that rubber antler w scent they sell...etc....... I get so tripped up on being a consumer some times.....trying to be smart and see what works for others first.

I've seen those, and bought the antler scent. I have a bucket of 6-7 small sheds that I use. I have heard of both letting the pup have an antler for his only toy, and I have heard the complete opposite, that the pup only gets to have antlers when training. We let him have a small antler for a toy and he seems to like it, it makes a great chew toy. Zap gave some solid advice there. I think we got lucky and a got a pretty good dog, so far he seems to be catching on. He is part lab, golden retriever and some collie in him, we have been told. He has a good nose too, and will track rabbits and squirrels. Only time will tell. We got him as to be a good pet first, and if the antler training works out I look at as a bonus.

[gjs4]

Awesome advice.

Was a bit surpirsed by the leave em be pups til 1-1.5 ....all of my bird dogs were started almost the day i got them....

blodtrailing is illegal here unless licensed here.....but thought of training him on that too a bit later in life...then go for the certification to use him.... never had a dog tied to deer hunting; which is so much of my passion....seems exciting

[Black Squirrel]

Awesome advice.

Was a bit surpirsed by the leave em be pups til 1-1.5 ....all of my bird dogs were started almost the day i got them....

blodtrailing is illegal here unless licensed here.....but thought of training him on that too a bit later in life...then go for the certification to use him.... never had a dog tied to deer hunting; which is so much of my passion....seems exciting

I think you can start doing some basic training right away. I am also, going to start antler training soon. I hope he will be ready to at least find a couple next spring.

[Zap]

Pup's attention span is short.

Sure play and development exercises are good for a young pup.
But serious training can be a bad idea.
Manners, come when called and do not pull into the leash is all the obediance I would train a pup.
If using food as a reward some other things can be done, but I do not believe in positave reward obediance training, as a dog with strong natural drives will do what the natural drives tell it.
All posative reward training goes out the window at that point.
So why bother?

The only totally reliable way to obediance train a dog with strong natural drives is a remote trainer......and that has to be introduced and used properly.

A local law enforcement agency did not purchase a SUPER patrol/narcotics dog from me because he was trained with a remote and I advised a remote trainer be used ALWAYS when the dog was training/on duty.

The dog they purchased was run down on the interstate when the handeler let him out of the car off leash to pee.

A deer ran past........dog said "see ya later".
Handeler stood there calling the dog as it ran across the interstate.

$10,000 down the drain.

The handeler could have recalled that dog with no problem if it had a remote on and the command could have been enforced.

I believe that a dog must listen to a command that is given, or you are training it that disobediance is acceptable.
Pup is really not ready for that type of discipline/structure.

A "tag" line can be used on a pup when playing in a fenced area/or around the house..

Tag line is a short piece of light line that you can step on and get control of the dog, that way there is no need to train it that its OK to not come immediately when called.

In a non-fenced area a dog should be on a leash.

[BigHunt]

Pup's attention span is short.

Sure play and development exercises are good for a young pup.
But serious training can be a bad idea.
Manners, come when called and do not pull into the leash is all the obediance I would train a pup.
If using food as a reward some other things can be done, but I do not believe in positave reward obediance training, as a dog with strong natural drives will do what the natural drives tell it.
All posative reward training goes out the window at that point.
So why bother?

The only totally reliable way to obediance train a dog with strong natural drives is a remote trainer......and that has to be introduced and used properly.

A local law enforcement agency did not purchase a SUPER patrol/narcotics dog from me because he was trained with a remote and I advised a remote trainer be used ALWAYS when the dog was training/on duty.

The dog they purchased was run down on the interstate when the handeler let him out of the car off leash to pee.

A deer ran past........dog said "see ya later".
Handeler stood there calling the dog as it ran across the interstate.

$10,000 down the drain.

The handeler could have recalled that dog with no problem if it had a remote on and the command could have been enforced.

I believe that a dog must listen to a command that is given, or you are training it that disobediance is acceptable.
Pup is really not ready for that type of discipline.

A "tag" line can be used on a pup when playing in a fenced area/around the house..

Tag line is a short piece of light line that you can step on and get control of the dog, that way there is no need to train it that its OK to not come immediately when called.

In a non-fenced area a dog should be on a leash.

hmmm a young pup sounds like me

[Zap]

BTW.

I always started introducing/training with a remote trainer set at a level that the dog could just feel a little.

Level was determined by having the dog wear the collar and starting at the lowest setting.......appling continous stimulation and watching the dog.

Beginning training at a level that the dog could just feel and easily tolerate without any signs of pain.

Ex: Change in ear posture, moving head in a quizical nature, etc.

Dog is taught that the minor continous stimulation stops at the first sign of compliance.

I do not want to be misunderstood that "electric therapy" is an acceptable training method.

[gjs4]

Big fan of e collars. My lab worn one and was toned (not stimulation) a few times...my GSPs were different story. Buddy had his beagle meet a truck - would never take a dog into the woods without one just for that reason alone

[Zap]

If a dog is off leash and you want it to obey a command.....

There are only two viable choices.
Do not give the command or be able to immediately enforce the command if necessary.

Any other choice will lead to the dog eventually learning that it is not necessary to comply.

Once a dog completly understands how to comply with a command, and the command is given and the dog does not comply......the second command should be accompanied with a correction that will result in compliance.

The result of this type of training is that it will become unnecessary for the handeler to repeat himself.

[kenn1320]

I had a beagle that was from a litter my dads dog had. The guy my dad got the dog from was into breeding beagles for rabbit hunting. I don't recall the age he told me to bring him the dog, but it was very young. He had a big fenced area and used it to train. It was cute to see the dog trying to track rabbits, even at that young age. Anyway the first time I took that dog out hunting he was very young still. I jumped a rabbit and took a shot at it with my single shot 12 and you could see where the rabbit skidded where the shot hit the snow. I put the dog on the trail and off he went barking. It was great, but then I didn't hear him barking any longer and got worried. I was calling and calling and he wasn't coming. Then I saw some movement and here comes my dog, retrieving that rabbit. Apparently I had hit it good enough to kill it, but it ran about 100yds or so I figure before it died. The dog could barely walk back as the rabbit wasn't much smaller then he was. His little legs kept tripping on that rabbit.
Also something worth sharing with ya is identification. That dog got loose one day and I couldn't find him. A day later a sign showed up on the telephone pole that somebody had found a brittany. My dad said better call them, bet its your dog. I called them and described my dog and they said it sounds like your dog, but could I be more specific. I told them its name and every detail I could think of, then they said anything different about his ears? Bingo a light went off and I told them about the tattoo of the 4 numbers. They said this is your dog, come and get him. I had forgotten, but the "trainer" had me tell him the last 4 digits of my SS and he tattoo'd that inside my dogs ear. Said if there is ever a situation where somebody steals your dog, you can prove its yours and most people will never know its there.